[Green-Moo]

Originally Posted by juniordeacon85

I recently found out that the southern baptist spent over $100,000 to investigate freemasonry and concluded that it should be up to the individual to decide for themselves if they want to join

What an appalling waste of resources. I've investigated Free Masonry & it's cost me absolutely nothing!! Imagine what better uses there are for $100,000.

[Ashlar521]

Agreed , many "Christians" like Ex-Masons for Jesus and others like them spend their time railing against Masonry when there are the homeless , the hungry , the poor , the orphans and crimes against the innocent to worry about yet they waste all their time worried about us . Huh , I guess I don't see it .

[cemab4y]

Originally Posted by juniordeacon85

I recently found out that the southern baptist spent over $100,000 to investigate freemasonry and concluded that it should be up to the individual to decide for themselves if they want to join

==> Your information is quite correct! The investigation that you refer to was made back in 1992-1993. The Southern Baptist Convention spent a year, and $100,000 to investigate the Craft, and issue a report. The report concluded that there were some elements of Freemasonry that were possibly objectionable to Christians, but that the decision to participate in Freemasonry was best left to the individual man.

[Jason]

I try not to "fight" with others over the issue. I will discuss it, and try to enlighten them, but I will not argue. There are people who take things to extremes, and sadly, religion is something people take to the extremes. I've seen a female brought to tears because the Catholic church she was to be re-married at called her a whore, slut and much worse, not to mention calling two kids names and telling them they are going to hell because they were married Baptist first. Now there are some people who forget their Masonic vows also. I've seen some Brothers forget the main tenants of Freemasonry. So there is no perfect in any group of people. Sadly, this presents a bad front for that group of people.

My friends and family know I'm a Mason. Some find it funny, others don't care, and some don't understand what it is to be one. I educate them only when they ask me questions, and have never argued with any of them. The same goes for strangers.

But thats just my 0.02 cents.

[Hawker]

This is a link to an excellent paper analyzing anti-Masonry from a religious/ counter cult perspective:

The New Anti-Masonic Movement in America Melissa Dawn Bruzas

This is a link to a BYU review of anti-Mormonism and it will be obvious to anyone who pays any attention that the jokers are largely the same:

Anti-Mormonism and the Newfangled Countercult Culture - FARMS Review

The BYU study will give you an indication of the scale and spread of the problem and both together make clear that the problem is not going away anytime soon but will probably get much worse before it gets better.

Frankly, given the level of organization these people have developed, an organized response is demanded. EVERY Grand Lodge in the United States should be posting SEVERAL Youtube videos a month of various events from the inspirational to the mundane. Grand Lodges MUST insist that individual lodges maintain their own websites (the Grand Lodge of Connecticut provides a facility for a web page for every lodge but many are not maintained). Local lodges should be REQUIRED to post video blogs of charitable events they host. This should all be Grand Lodge policy just as proficiency in ritual, etc.

The amount of Masonically produced information out there has increased in the last decade but the capacity to turn it into a flood exists.

This is not about a numbers game, or defining Masonry as a charity vs. an esoteric institution. It is about countering hatefull zealots.

Because if they didn't hate, why would they suggest that, for instance, even if they serve a good purpose the Shrine Hospitals should not exit because the organization is evil, or Scottish Rite Learning Centers or Hospitals, or Masonicare?

I know the various Grand Lodges can't work together to save their lives, but this should not be that difficult. One of the biggest problems are the Masons who don't have/ don't use/ don't understand/ don't care about computers. Up here the only place you will really encounter anti-Masonry is on the internet.

[Ashlar521]

You bring up some good points . I was talking to a couple of Grand Lodge officers on just this point this past weekend . But it all comes down to this , you are beating a dead horse . A zealot will cling to their beliefs come hell or high water and no amount of information you give them that , beyond a shadow of a doubt , proves them wrong will not sway them . They will tell you what you say is lies or find another avenue to come at you . I have lost friends and a couple of family members because of religion long before I became a Freemason . They let it consume them and change the very essence that made them who they were . They became nothing more than sheep and stated that every book , other than the bible I read , every show or movie I watched and any music I listened to , other than gospel music, was a sin .

I attend church and I believe in Jesus . But I am who I am . I'll stuff myself at Thanksgiving till I'm about to burst . I will watch The Texas Chainsaw Masscre or Halloween with glee . I will read the next Bentley Little , Dean Koontz or even the next Harry Potter novel for that matter with a twinkle in my eye ! I will hold my head high and be proud that I am a Freemason ! I will do all this without guilt . But I will not go against the charge delivered to me as an EA and argue with an "anti" . It is a useless endeavor , that will never bear fruit . To them , they are right and we are wrong . From the first formation of a lodge of Freemasons there has been someone speaking out against us and there always will .

[BG_TRBL]

Very nicely put Ashlar, I wholeheartedly agree with you and what you said. It has been one of our fraternal charges as we worship as our hearts require, Religious disputes are never suffered within the lodge, and to govern yourself with temperance against the insidious and ignorate, also of those who speak spitefully of our venerable institution. Respect others and their points of view but never let it sway you in your beliefs and vows of which you have been partakers and your parts in them.

[Hawker]

Originally Posted by Ashlar521

You bring up some good points . I was talking to a couple of Grand Lodge officers on just this point this past weekend . But it all comes down to this , you are beating a dead horse . A zealot will cling to their beliefs come hell or high water and no amount of information you give them that , beyond a shadow of a doubt , proves them wrong will not sway them . They will tell you what you say is lies or find another avenue to come at you . I have lost friends and a couple of family members because of religion long before I became a Freemason . They let it consume them and change the very essence that made them who they were . They became nothing more than sheep and stated that every book , other than the bible I read , every show or movie I watched and any music I listened to , other than gospel music, was a sin .

I attend church and I believe in Jesus . But I am who I am . I'll stuff myself at Thanksgiving till I'm about to burst . I will watch The Texas Chainsaw Masscre or Halloween with glee . I will read the next Bentley Little , Dean Koontz or even the next Harry Potter novel for that matter with a twinkle in my eye ! I will hold my head high and be proud that I am a Freemason ! I will do all this without guilt . But I will not go against the charge delivered to me as an EA and argue with an "anti" . It is a useless endeavor , that will never bear fruit . To them , they are right and we are wrong . From the first formation of a lodge of Freemasons there has been someone speaking out against us and there always will .

I agree with everything you say. But anti-Masonry is closely related to anti-Semetism, and anti-Mormonism (they constantly try to wrap the relationship with Masonry around Mormon's necks). As Masons we have a duty to the truth, and to treating people fairly. Letting a hateful and bigoted lie stand is as good as telling it ourselves.

The results of these lies are hatred:

YouTube - Supposed Christians Protesting the Mormons

We should not respond because we think we can change their minds. We should respond because we have a duty to the truth and to oppose the hatred these people spread. Just because we are not to enter into religious disputes does not mean we must tolerate hatred in the name of religion particularly when they use our gentle craft to spread it. If that is the case, ours is a worthless endeavor.

[Ashlar521]

Hawker , I've been thinking about my post and just making sure you know that I was not critizing you . Like you , I would love to shout at the anti's from the roof tops at how wrong they are about our Fraternity . I just know from experience from the days before I was a Freemason it will not help .

[Ashlar521]

Originally Posted by Hawker

I agree with everything you say. But anti-Masonry is closely related to anti-Semetism, and anti-Mormonism (they constantly try to wrap the relationship with Masonry around Mormon's necks). As Masons we have a duty to the truth, and to treating people fairly. Letting a hateful and bigoted lie stand is as good as telling it ourselves.

The results of these lies are hatred:

YouTube - Supposed Christians Protesting the Mormons

We should not respond because we think we can change their minds. We should respond because we have a duty to the truth and to oppose the hatred these people spread. Just because we are not to enter into religious disputes does not mean we must tolerate hatred in the name of religion particularly when they use our gentle craft to spread it. If that is the case, ours is a worthless endeavor.

I see were you are coming from , have you ever been on "Ex-Masons for Jesus "? Will make your blood boil .