Building Boaz Book Challenge

F

FF Sparky

Member
I understand, but the Torah studies is studied by Jewish people, I'm not Jewish(not that I have anything against it). So do I have to study Judaism to get the full meaning? Or is there more in other beliefs also?
 
Winter

Winter

I've been here before
FF Sparky said:
I understand, but the Torah studies is studied by Jewish people, I'm not Jewish(not that I have anything against it). So do I have to study Judaism to get the full meaning? Or is there more in other beliefs also?
Click to expand...
This has always been my biggest contention. The practice of taking stories from the Torah and Judaism and completely disregarding the teachings accompanied with those stories by the people who's stories they are and twisting the meaning.

I may be biased, but I would say that if a person wants to learn from what is in the Jewish bible, they should at least take the time to learn the accompanying teaching and not just the words themselves. Remember, Judaism has the Written Law (Torah) and the Oral Law that accompanies it to explain the written. Otherwise a person is likely to completely miss the point. Most religions, like Christianity, make use of the written part as a base while completely neglecting the Oral, resulting in an often skewed interpretation. (Not bashing Christianity, just stating a fact)

I'm not suggesting you become Jewish, but even a basic course in Judaism will aid your understanding greatly when basing arguments or interpretations on Judaic teaching.
 
CoachN

CoachN

Builder Builder
Winter said:
Sorry Coach, I'm just not seeing the connection on this one. I understand where you want it to go with the wheat heads = white squares and the chaff = black squares on the mosaic pavement and Masons winnowing what is important from what is not. (i.e. an EA divesting themselves of superfluities) I just don't know that I agree with your symbolism on this one.

Mount Moriah was used for winnowing until it was purchased by David where he built an altar for sacrifice. It wasn't until his son Solomon built The Temple that the mosaic pavement comes in. My point is, once the land was purchased it ceased to be used for the purpose of winnowing and became a place dedicated to sacrifice and offerings to G-d. And most every lecture focuses on the mosaic pavement as a representation of the good and bad in persons life making a whole. It is no coincidence that our altars in our Lodges are placed at the center of these mosaic pavements. Don't get me wrong, there are arguments to be made about sacrifice and divesting.

We already, though, have a working tool in Masonic symbolism that has the symbolic use of divesting ourselves from superfluities, or unnecessary aspects that are distractions, or keep us from positive growth. Basically winnowing.

I am not dismissing your connections out of hand, I just feel there are many more important lessons that can be gleaned from the acquisition of Mount Moriah by David than this one. For instance, a sacrifice that costs one nothing is worthless, and a place of worship acquired unfairly diminishes it.
Click to expand...
Winter said:
No, it doesn't only refer to the purchase, in Torah study these facts are used to apply much more broadly.

My only contention with the connection is what I see as a tenuous connection between the winnowing, place of sacrifice, and the mosaic pavement in Judaism and Masonry.
Click to expand...
I do not see what you and I are saying as mutually exclusive. I think that they both apply if they both make sense and a difference to the Brother who is studying it. I was focusing on winnowing, not to the exclusion of other lessons, but as merely one lesson amongst many.

As far as "winnowing" is concerned, there are several winnowings that a Mason goes through in Masonry.

If you want, we can also include in this all the wonderful lessons dealing with sacrifice too.

I though focusing on one lesson at a time would be more productive though.
 
F

FF Sparky

Member
I recently read that is winnowing done using the wind, either natural or from a fan. This I knew

What I didn't realize is that the 'wind' is representative of a 'spirit' our G_d. Who helps us winnow through what is good and bad; what will help us, and what is useless to us.
 
BukeyeJackson

BukeyeJackson

ViMH Advisory Board
FF Sparky said:
I recently read that is winnowing done using the wind, either natural or from a fan. This I knew

What I didn't realize is that the 'wind' is representative of a 'spirit' our G_d. Who helps us winnow through what is good and bad; what will help us, and what is useless to us.
Click to expand...
I love when I hear it all come together. I had read this before and kind of forgot it. To hear it again is like a Light bulb coming back on.
 
PatrickWilliams

PatrickWilliams

I could tell you ...
BukeyeJackson said:
I love when I hear it all come together. I had read this before and kind of forgot it. To hear it again is like a Light bulb coming back on.
Click to expand...
Oh, is that YOU, Bukeye? Y'know, people are trying to sleep over here and we'd appreciate it if you put a lampshade over the bulb, okay???
 
CoachN

CoachN

Builder Builder
I currently have 5 different projects I'm working on, of which I believe many will enjoy. Stay tuned!
 
F

FF Sparky

Member
The very things we need to winnow from our lives, vices and superfluities are unnecessary excesses. Vices is the opposite of virtue. Vices are behaviours or habits unaccepting. Superfluities is things unnecassary.
 
Duncan1574

Duncan1574

Lodge Chaplain & arms dealer
CoachN said:
The need for Masons to Thresh and Winnow. ;)

Question 16: What are Vices and Superfluities?
Click to expand...
Distractions from my path.
Vices are the things that I am secretive about my dealings with.
Superfluities are the things that I waste my time on that don't build me up or improve me.
 
PatrickWilliams

PatrickWilliams

I could tell you ...
FF Sparky said:
Vices are of a personal nature, and superfluities are of material nature
Click to expand...
Sparky (and all), I think we may benefit by taking a peek at the old dictionary here. I'm pulling out my big one: Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language 1983.

A vice is (to condense the definitions): an immoral or evil habit or practice or a physical defect, flaw or infirmity or a bad habit.

A superfluity is: a superabundant or excessive amount or something superfluous (as a luxury).

So, in a sense, your definition is close, but needs to be extended a little further. Vices are 'personal', indeed. But further, are those practices of a personal nature that violate one's morality (immoral or evil) or, when physical, get in the way of proper functioning (infirmities and bad habits).

A superfluity is something unnecessary, but does not necessarily need to be material. If one is so committed to football (as an example) that one finds themselves ignoring the needs of their family, etc. to catch a game, then football becomes a superfluity.

Operatively, if one has been a meticulous farmer and has kept his grain free of stones, twigs, bugs, etc., then winnowing will blow away the chaff and one is left with clean, whole grain.

Speculatively, if one has been a meticulous person and has kept his mind, body and spirit free of the more vicious forms of perniciousness, licentiousness, immorality, etc., then winnowing will blow away the chaff and one is left with a clean, whole body and spirit. [note: and further, if one has not been meticulous, then one will have to winnow again and again and again, until the vices and superfluities become so light that they are Gone With the Wind. But, of course, I don't know nothing about birthin' no babies. ;) ]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top