Building Boaz Book Challenge

FF Sparky

Member
Do we winnow our Vices and Superfluities? or do we chip away the corners of the stone of our spiritual body? the second is were we are taught about vices and superfluities. I can agree both ways. And one way to look at vices in the speculative would be the "7 Deadly sins".
 

CoachN

Builder Builder
Question 18: What common character do both Vices and Superfluities posess and what character makes them different?
 
Question 18: What common character do both Vices and Superfluities posess and what character makes them different?
They are both distractions from a Master doing his work. The characteristic that makes them different is one is from with and the other is from the outside???
 

Gary2112

Troll Stomper
Staff member
Question 18: What common character do both Vices and Superfluities posess and what character makes them different?
They are both distractions from a Master doing his work. The characteristic that makes them different is one is from with and the other is from the outside???

I disagree with your second sentence. Vice's can be both internal/external in terms of their manifestations. I think I see where you were going with your idea though.
 
I disagree with your second sentence. Vice's can be both internal/external in terms of their manifestations. I think I see where you were going with your idea though.
I agree that vices are both internal/external..... I was meaning vices are acquired from within ourselves or are more personal in nature

Example: For an alcoholic any amount of alcohol is a vice but to another person a single drink may be a pleasure.....
 

FF Sparky

Member
They are both of excess, but vices, like already said or of one's self, again like the seven deadly sins. Lust, gluttony, etc, etc,. Superfluities would be greed of material things, more money than one needs, 10 motorcycles in the garage, an over abundance/excess of luxury. But with this meaning, isn't this what we work or butts of in our regular vocations to earn? or are we working to just stay even? Does superfluities have another meaning?
 
They are both of excess, but vices, like already said or of one's self, again like the seven deadly sins. Lust, gluttony, etc, etc,. Superfluities would be greed of material things, more money than one needs, 10 motorcycles in the garage, an over abundance/excess of luxury. But with this meaning, isn't this what we work or butts of in our regular vocations to earn? or are we working to just stay even? Does superfluities have another meaning?
I do understand the general meaning of what you are saying but I will say that a superfluity is greed or excess in things ....... but what is considered excess will depend on each individual..... I do know a guy that has 11 Harleys... to him it is not an excess....he could easily get more if he wishes without it being any kind of burden....

But like I said, I get the jest of what you mean..... excess to impress....or excess that causes burdens.....right
 

PatrickWilliams

I could tell you ...
Do we winnow our Vices and Superfluities? or do we chip away the corners of the stone of our spiritual body? the second is were we are taught about vices and superfluities. I can agree both ways. And one way to look at vices in the speculative would be the "7 Deadly sins".
These are both metaphors (winnowing chaff or perpending one's ashlar) for the same thing. And while the 7 deadly sins are one way to look at vices, they aren't the only vices out there.
 
Is it superfluity when I wanna make it have 1500 horse? with a different set of turbos?
Only if you wish to do so to "one up" someone else and have no other reason or if it is a burden on your family. If you are truly a gearhead and like to build muscle cars that is no problem....

being a MASON is not a vow of poverty or anything even close to it.....
 

PatrickWilliams

I could tell you ...
Is it superfluity when I wanna make it have 1500 horse? with a different set of turbos?
The lucky part, for you, is that only you can determine what is chaff in your basket or a blemish on your ashlar. 1500 Horse and new turbos would certainly be a superfluity for me. Your mileage may vary (but not by much with that gas hog :) )
 

PatrickWilliams

I could tell you ...
They are both distractions from a Master doing his work. The characteristic that makes them different is one is from with and the other is from the outside???
I'm gonna take exception with the first part of your answer: vices and superfluities are NOT distractions from the work; they ARE the work. If there were no vices or superfluities, then we would not have to perpend our ashlars. And that is what's the same about them: neither are wanted by the craftsman.

Now for the 2nd part: if you're not right, you're close. Vices are those things that conflict with our morals and are, therefore, internal. Superfluities are external; they are timewasters from the world around us that we pick up on and allow them to mark up our ashlars. The car with a supercharger and all the other bells and whistles can, indeed, be a superfluity. For most of us, it would be unnecessary, and again, for most of us, would be a crippling expense that would cause us to neglect our responsibilities. Therefore, it can be a superfluity. And as you see, is external.
 

CoachN

Builder Builder
I like what I'm reading my Brothers.

I offer the following: moral judgements do not have to enter into this, but can if one wishes them to. I try to be as neutral as I can possibly be at first and then Build upon the basics.

Coach's Rudimentary Descriptions:

1) Superfluities - Unnecessary Excesses
2) Vices - Harmful Unnecessary Excesses

Coach's Question:

1) What truth do you see in these descriptions?
2) What fallacy do you see in these descriptions?
 
I'm gonna take exception with the first part of your answer: vices and superfluities are NOT distractions from the work; they ARE the work. If there were no vices or superfluities, then we would not have to perpend our ashlars. And that is what's the same about them: neither are wanted by the craftsman.

Now for the 2nd part: if you're not right, you're close. Vices are those things that conflict with our morals and are, therefore, internal. Superfluities are external; they are timewasters from the world around us that we pick up on and allow them to mark up our ashlars. The car with a supercharger and all the other bells and whistles can, indeed, be a superfluity. For most of us, it would be unnecessary, and again, for most of us, would be a crippling expense that would cause us to neglect our responsibilities. Therefore, it can be a superfluity. And as you see, is external.
I will agree that they are part of the labor but I will stand by my notion that they are also distraction.....by that I mean if we do not do what is taught as an Apprentice we will not be working on our ashlars thus preventing or distracting a Master from doing his work
 
I like what I'm reading my Brothers.

I offer the following: moral judgements do not have to enter into this, but can if one wishes them to. I try to be as neutral as I can possibly be at first and then Build upon the basics.

Coach's Rudimentary Descriptions:

1) Superfluities - Unnecessary Excesses
2) Vices - Harmful Unnecessary Excesses

Coach's Question:

1) What truth do you see in these descriptions?
2) What fallacy do you see in these descriptions?
Fireman's Answers

1) I agree your descriptions are good
2) None
 

CoachN

Builder Builder
I will agree that they are part of the labor but I will stand by my notion that they are also distraction.....by that I mean if we do not do what is taught as an Apprentice we will not be working on our ashlars thus preventing or distracting a Master from doing his work
My experience of both of them is that they are both distractions and Burdens which require Labor, which I call "Work", to divest oneself of them.
 

CoachN

Builder Builder
In regard to the internal/external statements: I see them impacting both the internal aspects of men who have them and the external aspects of their live, including and not limited to those they peopler they impose them upon.
 

Gary2112

Troll Stomper
Staff member
Wow!!!!!

This has got to be the best thread ever!!!! As Mason's we should always remember the three Degrees. The EA is our foundation.

I've been a lurker on this thread, but when he reaches "Building Athens" look out!

Good stuff Coach!
 
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