Reading and it's effect of Freemasonry

[Gary]

<snip>To struggle for something makes it more worthwhile to me.

There is a big difference between struggling, and work. I can adapt and overcome as good as the next guy, but I choose not to struggle. Work smart not hard is my motto.

I can read and understand these long winded tomes. I don't see that I'm selling myself short on anything. I choose not to read them simply because I don't enjoy them at all.

I equate this to reading a legislative bill or a legal document. After 10 pages of "whereas" and Therefore's you finally get to the point. Yeah, I can read it, yes there may be valuable information, no I don't enjoy the process.

 

[removed12612]

It has been symbolic from day one. The only difference is the expression of the symbolism. It went from a metaphor to a simile, that is all.

What that did was try to quell the fears of the literalist. Poets know better!

And by taking your suggested direction, what intention and purpose would change?

YES! It's not about experiencing the experiences; it's what experiencing specific experiences opens up for you as a result.


Brother Winter is correct and so are you. The key is finding out how the door can be opened up for those who are not able to understand. This is why I focused my books on background and symbolic meanings. It's my way of opening the door for my Brothers.

By taking the direction I have suggested, the intention and purpose would be to provide additional tools to reach Brothers that find the monotonous writing style of some authors. Those old books may contain a wealth of knowledge but if the message is not making it to the audience then how effective will it be. Not all gain enlightenment from long drawn out soliloquies........ I currently have in my had a modern book containing 180 pages including footnotes and reverences....which could probably be even less pages if the book didnt measure approx 3x5..... the book gets to the meat and potatoes very quickly and doesnt ramble on.....

By providing other options, we might be surprised at how many just might read more and gain more knowledge. Short and to the point is an option that must not be overlooked.

Maybe my thinking is a by-product of my usual vocation where sharing knowledge in a long drawn out way can have dire consequences.

 

[removed12612]

There is a big difference between struggling, and work. I can adapt and overcome as good as the next guy, but I choose not to struggle. Work smart not hard is my motto.

I can read and understand these long winded tomes. I don't see that I'm selling myself short on anything. I choose not to read them simply because I don't enjoy them at all.

I equate this to reading a legislative bill or a legal document. After 10 pages of "whereas" and Therefore's you finally get to the point. Yeah, I can read it, yes there may be valuable information, no I don't enjoy the process.

Amen.....I mean SMIB............if one doesnt enjoy the writing style, they will never get the info...... I just believe we should have options.....

 

[removed12612]

IMHO, Part of the existing ritual to me is that I have to pay attention to understand it, translate it into modern language and I would lose interest quickly. To struggle for something makes it more worthwhile to me.

Exclude ritual from the equation......

While some find a struggle worthwhile many others find it a frustration... should we exclude them just because some dont enjoy the writing styles of old?

 

[Duncan1574]

Exclude ritual from the equation......

While some find a struggle worthwhile many others find it a frustration... should we exclude them just because some dont enjoy the writing styles of old?

Short-timer comment: Masonry doesn't like change, but while I can understand frustration, the old words have been said for hundreds of years, the walls of most Lodge has echoed them for so long, it would be like blasphemy to speak other words.

It could be time for a change, but for what? So that a few people won't struggle with some odd words?

 

[Gary]

Short-timer comment: Masonry doesn't like change, but while I can understand frustration, the old words have been said for hundreds of years, the walls of most Lodge has echoed them for so long, it would be like blasphemy to speak other words.

It could be time for a change, but for what? So that a few people won't struggle with some odd words?

I respectfully submit that it is not the words, but rather the structure of their presentation that is problematic for some.

Blasphemy, as you put it is not the case. If that were indeed true, the same argument could be brought forth for the manner in which we currently practice our Craft in comparison to it's origins. Why then have rituals been revised?

To quote Coach; "You can't expect Travelers to willfully, delightfully and rewardingly engage in traversing territories if you provide them with maps that are written in a language that they will never comprehend."

In this case comprehension may not necessarily be the problem, but rather a situation that the form of communication is not as suitable for today's reader.

These works have value. I don't argue that at all. They have their place, but to suggest that one has to struggle in order to gain understanding of something that can be explained a different way is rather silly.

 

[Duncan1574]

I respectfully submit that it is not the words, but rather the structure of their presentation that is problematic for some.

Blasphemy, as you put it is not the case. If that were indeed true, the same argument could be brought forth for the manner in which we currently practice our Craft in comparison to it's origins. Why then have rituals been revised?

To quote Coach; "You can't expect Travelers to willfully, delightfully and rewardingly engage in traversing territories if you provide them with maps that are written in a language that they will never comprehend."

In this case comprehension may not necessarily be the problem, but rather a situation that the form of communication is not as suitable for today's reader.

These works have value. I don't argue that at all. They have their place, but to suggest that one has to struggle in order to gain understanding of something that can be explained a different way is rather silly.

There people who desire the struggle, it is part of the experience, I am one of those and I have an EA who is struggling with his posting due to the words, so it not like I don't see the effects of arcane words.

Changing the words will not increase membership, they are not, typically, heard until initiation. If my GL determined to change the words, my OB compels me to obey, however it is discussed on a regular basis and the words are not changed.

 

[Gary]

There people who desire the struggle, it is part of the experience, I am one of those and I have an EA who is struggling with his posting due to the words, so it not like I don't see the effects of arcane words.

Changing the words will not increase membership, they are not, typically, heard until initiation. If my GL determined to change the words, my OB compels me to obey, however it is discussed on a regular basis and the words are not changed.

Brother, I think there is a possibility that you may have missed my point. The discussion originated by talking about authors writing style. That is where the crux of the problem is.

Ritual on the other hand, HAS been changed and rewritten several times! The words your EA is struggling with may be old, but I can assure you that the ritual is not very likely the exact same verbiage as what was passed down 200 years ago. For the record, I have no problem with the ritual being what it is. It represents a historical part of Freemasonry!

 

[removed12612]

There people who desire the struggle, it is part of the experience, I am one of those and I have an EA who is struggling with his posting due to the words, so it not like I don't see the effects of arcane words.

Changing the words will not increase membership, they are not, typically, heard until initiation. If my GL determined to change the words, my OB compels me to obey, however it is discussed on a regular basis and the words are not changed.

My good Brother.....you are including ritual into this conversation and it has been excluded in the context of the conversation. I am simple referring to books by masonic authors......I do not propose any ritual change (even though it is going on in some jurisdictions). When one makes an attempt to read any book masonic or not, if the author does not quickly get the attention of the reader and can keep it.....well the material is then not reaching the audience. It is not a matter of struggling to read..... it is a matter of a rather boring style of reading. ALOT of the old authors wrote in the modern style of their time........so why not have a rewrite into more modern style. Not to mention, their writing style is like listening to a very monotone speaker......the message may be great but all the average listener is hearing is blah...blah....blah.......

 

[Duncan1574]

My good Brother.....you are including ritual into this conversation and it has been excluded in the context of the conversation. I am simple referring to books by masonic authors......I do not propose any ritual change (even though it is going on in some jurisdictions). When one makes an attempt to read any book masonic or not, if the author does not quickly get the attention of the reader and can keep it.....well the material is then not reaching the audience. It is not a matter of struggling to read..... it is a matter of a rather boring style of reading. ALOT of the old authors wrote in the modern style of their time........so why not have a rewrite into more modern style. Not to mention, their writing style is like listening to a very monotone speaker......the message may be great but all the average listener is hearing is blah...blah....blah.......

I stand corrected, about ritual.
Yes, the wording of our ancient Brothers is convoluted at times, how some ever at their moment entombment upon the varied media of their capture, those were the common vernacular of the day. A Brother from the hinder years would be hard pressed to find significant value in our guttural discourses to warrant a further perusal as we would be thought commoners, uneducated, and an not worthy of the time.

 

[Gary]

I stand corrected, about ritual.
Yes, the wording of our ancient Brothers is convoluted at times, how some ever at their moment entombment upon the varied media of their capture, those were the common vernacular of the day. A Brother from the hinder years would be hard pressed to find significant value in our guttural discourses to warrant a further perusal as we would be thought commoners, uneducated, and an not worthy of the time.

LOL! @ Fireman! Bro. Duncan is a cheeky one for sure.

In case you possibly fell asleep reading his response, That's his way to bloviate; The author's of old probably wouldn't understand or find value in today's modern "simplified" form of communication.

What took him 68 words to say, I summarized in 16.

 

[Duncan1574]

LOL! @ Fireman! Bro. Duncan is a cheeky one for sure.

In case you possibly fell asleep reading his response, That's his way to bloviate; The author's of old probably wouldn't understand or find value in today's modern "simplified" form of communication.

What took him 68 words to say, I summarized in 16.

The court of QE1 was know for the over use of words, "if you can say in two words, don't talk you have nothing to say".

(Only 68, I must be feeling hurried )

 

[removed12612]

LOL! @ Fireman! Bro. Duncan is a cheeky one for sure.

In case you possibly fell asleep reading his response, That's his way to bloviate; The author's of old probably wouldn't understand or find value in today's modern "simplified" form of communication.

What took him 68 words to say, I summarized in 16.

Thanks Bro........ good thing I havent eaten any turkey or I might be in a coma..

The "authors" of old may find us uneducated or unworthy.... but I do believe they were not considered the highest scholars of their time....Hall and Wilmhurst for example are reported to have exercised artistic freedom with their works...... Today, many would consider them nothing more than a blow hard trying unsuccessfully to impress others by attempting to "sound" important by using an abundant of unneeded words in their attempts at literature. Writing unneeded words when making an attempt to enlighten others to me is a vise or superfluity...... and we all know what we must do with vices and superfluities

 

[removed12612]

The court of QE1 was know for the over use of words, "if you can say in two words, don't talk you have nothing to say".

(Only 68, I must be feeling hurried )

I think the American Revolution answers what we think of QEI or QEII court...

 

[Duncan1574]

I think the American Revolution answers what we think of QEI or QEII court...

QE1 was long gone by the time of the colonial rebellion. That was King George running England at the time.

I agree about the American Revolution, taxation without representation and being taxed to excess to support a government no one likes. WAIT A MINUTE!!!!

 

[Gary]

<snip>
I agree about the American Revolution, taxation without representation and being taxed to excess to support a government no one likes. WAIT A MINUTE!!!!

LOL Now that's funny!

 

[removed12612]

QE1 was long gone by the time of the colonial rebellion. That was King George running England at the time.

I agree about the American Revolution, taxation without representation and being taxed to excess to support a government no one likes. WAIT A MINUTE!!!!

KG or QE....either will work in my point.....

hmmmm......... you wouldnt be adding in a bit of modern commentary, would ya???.....it is a VERY GOOD POINT!!!

 

[Duncan1574]

KG or QE....either will work in my point.....

hmmmm......... you wouldnt be adding in a bit of modern commentary, would ya???.....it is a VERY GOOD POINT!!!

who m e ?




NAY!