Widows Sons.....issues???

January 6, 2011

To the Masons of Texas:

Grand Master’s Edict

I have been advised that some Texas Masons presently belong to an organization operating under the name of “Widows Sons Masonic Motorcycle Riders Association”. At the 2007 Grand Annual Communication this organization was denied recognition as an organization to which Texas Masons could belong.

Texas Masons are not permitted to belong to, or be identified with, the organization known as “Widows Sons Masonic Motorcycle Riders Association” unless and until such organization is recognized by the Grand Lodge of Texas, and to do so constitutes a Masonic Disciplinary Violation. This Edict is effective immediately. Acts contrary to this edict will result in Masonic Disciplinary action against the violator.

This edict is issued to enforce the 2007 decision of the Grand Lodge of Texas concerning the “Widows Sons Masonic Motorcycle Riders Association”.

Sincerely and fraternally,

T. E. “Gene” Carnes
Grand Master of Masons in Texas
 

Bob Franks

Past District Deputy Grand Lecturer
January 6, 2011

To the Masons of Texas:

Grand Master’s Edict

I have been advised that some Texas Masons presently belong to an organization operating under the name of “Widows Sons Masonic Motorcycle Riders Association”. At the 2007 Grand Annual Communication this organization was denied recognition as an organization to which Texas Masons could belong.

Texas Masons are not permitted to belong to, or be identified with, the organization known as “Widows Sons Masonic Motorcycle Riders Association” unless and until such organization is recognized by the Grand Lodge of Texas, and to do so constitutes a Masonic Disciplinary Violation. This Edict is effective immediately. Acts contrary to this edict will result in Masonic Disciplinary action against the violator.

This edict is issued to enforce the 2007 decision of the Grand Lodge of Texas concerning the “Widows Sons Masonic Motorcycle Riders Association”.

Sincerely and fraternally,

T. E. “Gene” Carnes
Grand Master of Masons in Texas
Whoa! Where did that come from? What is their beef with WSMMRA?

S&F
 

johnj1582

New Member
Brothers, as I understand it (and to paraphrase my DDGM), in Texas, it is a Masonic Offense to be a member of any group requiring its members to be master masons that has not been specifically stipulated by vote at the Grand Annual Communication...

Texas Masons have not placed the Widow's Sons on that list yet apparently. :/

it's unfortunate, and i don't really dig it. not that I even have a bike, but that's beside the point!
 

Bob Franks

Past District Deputy Grand Lecturer
Brothers, as I understand it (and to paraphrase my DDGM), in Texas, it is a Masonic Offense to be a member of any group requiring its members to be master masons that has not been specifically stipulated by vote at the Grand Annual Communication...

Texas Masons have not placed the Widow's Sons on that list yet apparently. :/

it's unfortunate, and i don't really dig it. not that I even have a bike, but that's beside the point!
Almost sounds as restrictive as a state near to the both of us that won't approve any fundraiser that benefits any organization but the blue lodge; can't help out Rainbow, DeMolay, Jobies...

:(
 

DavisB

Member
Bro. Hodapp wrote about this on his blog. He also stated that there were other Grand Lodges that were hesitant about the Widow's Sons. The Grand Lodge of Tennessee has apparently expressed hesitation about the Widow's Sons vest patches being worn in places where alcohol is served.

I kind of understand the hesitation by the GL of TN but I don't see any difference between the patch and anything else displaying the S&C, like a ring, being worn where alcohol is served. I don't really see why there would be a difference.
 

Duncan1574

Lodge Chaplain & arms dealer
The Tylers of the 9 si the newest chapter in Wisconsin and the bylaws state that you are not to drink and wear the colors. Perhaps it is this concern of drinking that caused that clause to insue?
 
I have been looking for info on where the GL for Brother Hodapp and myself stands....it could have a effect in my Lodge....if it is found to be a no-no...
 

Azpir8king

Member
I have been looking for info on where the GL for Brother Hodapp and myself stands....it could have a effect in my Lodge....if it is found to be a no-no...
Brother Winter ran this down. its a procedural thing that escalated into a tit for tat retribution thing. That's it.
Their BIG mistake was going from being a Masonic "club" to wanting status with the GL. That changed things and got a bunch of busy busy's involved.
Here is the thread from the Tyler's FB page:

#
Winter Guite' The TX issue goes back to 2007. A vote was held at GL to approve the WS as a legit organization in the state. The vote passed. The WS that spearheaded the WS in TX got sick and left GL early, after the successful vote.

January 11 at 9:41am ·
#
Winter Guite' Then a Brother with spurious motives gets up and tells the GL that the TX WS bylaws say that they will accept anyone, whether a Mason or not. And since the Brother who was championing the WS went home sick, there was nobody to speak up and say how that was wrong. Another vote was called and this time, the vote went the other way.

January 11 at 9:43am ·

Winter Guite' The WS in in TX have been having issues since then. Some Brothers decided they would continue to ride as WS while the leadership there continues to seek recognition and this caused the edict. Truthfully, the TX situation is nothing compared the French situation! LOL
January 11 at 9:45am ·

now to put a finer point on it, I will repost MY thoughts on ANY GL affecting YOUR GL from that same thread:
Tom Tinney
Jon, I saw the edict from Texas GL.
It has more to do with HOW Texas approves Masonic organizations than any direct issue with the Widows Sons. Somebody jumped the gun and got spanked. I guess my first thought is....when did anything in Texas affect WI Freemasonry? Just so you know, there is also an edict from West Virginia Grand Lodge saying their members cannot visit or commiserate with Ohio Masons. I wonder if your PM is concerned about visiting Ohio Masons? Probably not. The ONLY Grand Lodge edicts that matter to Wisconsin Freemasons COME from WI Grand Lodge. Period.
Just so you know, New York Grand Lodge doesn't like the Widows Sons either...because they don't like motorcycle groups at all. Meanwhile, IL Grand Lodge LOVES the Sons. They see the good work. So does Indiana.
From my own personal experience, while visiting your lodge, a certain PM from Ozaukee gave me a twenty minute dissertation on how any organization outside of Blue lodge was superfluous and unnecessary (including Scottish Rite and Shrine). He also went on a personal rant on motorcycle's in general. We know why.
So, the short of it is GRAND LODGE OF WI says we are OK. That’s all that matters. I have sent an email inquiry to an operating chapter of the Abilene Widows Sons to get more clarification as well.
 

Winter

I've been here before
Thank you Brother Tom for posting all of that so I don't have to retype it!

That being said, as a member of the Widows Sons, here is the problem I have...

The organization, that is now international and has Chapters in several countries, maintains no control over said organization. Chapters are formed in Masonic jurisdictions all over the world with little or no oversight. Recognition by mainstream Masonry is in many places given freely and in others ruthlesly shut down. (Just look at New York)

Every jurisdiction of the WS is autonomous, the same way we organize our Grand Lodges. And the same effect is to be had. We are fractured and disjointed, falling back on petty rivalries and questions about who "does Masonry better."

As I see it, if a group of Masons want to get together because they have the same hobby (motorcycles, classic cars, fishing, woodworking, whatever) how is that an issue?
 

FamilyMan

Fidelis ad Mortem
Just to clarify: The edict does not state that WV Masons cannot associate with Ohio Masons, but it does state that WV Masons cannot hold Masonic communication with Ohio Masons. Association outside the Lodge is permitted.
 
Brother Az....I read something on the forum from the GL of IN that has lead me to believe that while being in the WS is not a masonic offense...there is some questioning and clarification that is to be straightened out.....I will be sending a message to a Brother that will be able to clarify where IN stands regarding the WS.....
 

CoachN

Builder Builder
Just to clarify: The edict does not state that WV Masons cannot associate with Ohio Masons, but it does state that WV Masons cannot hold Masonic communication with Ohio Masons. Association outside the Lodge is permitted.
"Hairsplitting" is a respected and finely cultivated artform that Masons all over can benefit from tremendously.

This is one such fine example of this art crafted masterfully - KUDOS!
 

Azpir8king

Member
"Hairsplitting" is a respected and finely cultivated artform that Masons all over can benefit from tremendously.

This is one such fine example of this art crafted masterfully - KUDOS!
I like crafting and splitting hairs as well.

I did not say "associate". And to "Commiserate with" the Ohio Mason, they would have to hold a conversation about masonry (unless they limited it to a sympathetic look), which would be a No-no.

Ahh, lets lets split that hair a little finer. So, if an WV Mason recognizes an Ohio Mason by his ring, how can he communicate or imply or establish that he is an WV Mason without HOLDING A MASONIC communication in the form of a Sign, grip or word? Basically, the way I read that, is they can talk about fishing, baseball or whatever, but anything about Masonry is taboo. :D
 

Azpir8king

Member
Thank you Brother Tom for posting all of that so I don't have to retype it!

That being said, as a member of the Widows Sons, here is the problem I have...

The organization, that is now international and has Chapters in several countries, maintains no control over said organization. Chapters are formed in Masonic jurisdictions all over the world with little or no oversight. Recognition by mainstream Masonry is in many places given freely and in others ruthlessly shut down. (Just look at New York)

Every jurisdiction of the WS is autonomous, the same way we organize our Grand Lodges. And the same effect is to be had. We are fractured and disjointed, falling back on petty rivalries and questions about who "does Masonry better."

As I see it, if a group of Masons want to get together because they have the same hobby (motorcycles, classic cars, fishing, woodworking, whatever) how is that an issue?
Please note: These are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect the view or policies of the Widows Sons organization.

While I like the autonomy of each WS Grand Chapter to function (so they can more closely work with their OWN Grand Lodge), I agree that the International organization needs to have the stones to PULL charters where MASONIC values or reputations or LAWS are being broken. Period.

I think this goes back to the two philosophies that exist any organization. MINE is "participate or Demit", while another group's is "As long as we are collecting dues, we are good with them. Don't rock the dues boat"

I think that plays into why the WS organization does not go after that minority group that is screwing things up for the rest of us.(AKA FRANCE)
 

Azpir8king

Member
Brother Az....I read something on the forum from the GL of IN that has lead me to believe that while being in the WS is not a masonic offense...there is some questioning and clarification that is to be straightened out.....I will be sending a message to a Brother that will be able to clarify where IN stands regarding the WS.....
I followed up as well. The GM is putting his eye at the organization to preempt any issues and re-enforce that they ARE MASONS. That is a good thing. Keeping GL informed and staying on the Level with the GM is part of the program. The quote I received back was :

"He also stated that he has no intentions to disband the Indiana WS".
 

jimzdat

New Member
While not directly related to the issue at hand, I have my own opinion of the Widow's Sons, based on my interaction with a member of the group.

Here's a rundown of what happened:

Out in Sturgis back in 2008; the local blue lodge holds a special every year during the Sturgis Rally - open to all MMs (not sure if they concerned themselves with interstate reciprocity). If I recall, we had brethren from around 20 states, so a pretty wide range of backgrounds.

After the meeting, we were all sitting in their dining area enjoying some light refreshments - my brother and I were approached by a member of the WS asking if we had ever thought of joining the group. Initially, the member was eager to talk with both of us - but eventually the discussion came around to what bike we were riding.
Once the WS member found out that my brother was riding a Yamaha, and I was on an H-D; he noticiably stopped speaking to my brother, and directed all conversation to me. It was VERY obvious, and both my brother and I saw it.

At that point, I stopped listening to what he had to say, as I wasn't willing to support that mindset - some may see it as petty, but to me it was bordering on discriminatory.

Just my $0.02 - not to be confused with any offical edict from any jurisdiction
 

Azpir8king

Member
....Once the WS member found out that my brother was riding a Yamaha, and I was on an H-D; he noticeably stopped speaking to my brother, and directed all conversation to me. It was VERY obvious, and both my brother and I saw it.

At that point, I stopped listening to what he had to say, as I wasn't willing to support that mindset - some may see it as petty, but to me it was bordering on discriminatory......."
Yep, there are Yahoo's in every bunch.

There are some who really cannot adjust to anything different. I ride a metric now as well. Gave up on H-D after 20 years. I edit a Motorcycle magazine in my spare time. I ride my Roadstar PROUDLY into H-D dealerships and bike events.

In our particular chapter, we took care of the whole brand issue with this By-law: No WS SHALL bash or disparage another WS ride , choice of ride or style of ride. Period. You do, you get expelled from that event. Keep it up and your patch gets pulled. Its all about harmony.

We also have NON riding Widows Sons in our chapter that don't own a bike. We welcome them as well. They actually can make a long ride better by providing vehicle support. Its about camaraderie and common interest AS WELL as spreading the good works of Masonry into the Motorcycling community.

This group is supposed to be about WHO YOU ARE not WHAT YOU RIDE and any WS or Mason that forgets that basic charge OUGHT to be out. Any WS chapter that allows that sort of BS...or worse incorporates a specific BRAND you have to ride into their by-laws (as one group has done) should have their charter yanked. I wonder how your WS would have acted if the GM of his state rode a Goldwing and wanted to join?

Don't like their ride? But their a Mason. Don't like their hair cut? But their a Mason. Don't like the color of their shoes? But their a Mason. Don't like the music they listen to? But their a Mason. Judging a brother Mason on those sorts of things or excluding them for those reasons? You're not a Mason. You have lost your way and you are inviting the GL to come in and do something about it. If you EXCLUDE a Brother Mason from your MASONIC organization, you better not cry when the rain starts falling. That's just my Humble personal opinion.
 

Winter

I've been here before
I'll back Tom up on this one 100%. One of my closest Brothers and fellow WS rides a metric and I proudly ride next to him.
 
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