Arkansas Shrine....

edwmax

Active Member
I see it now. ... There is more info coming to light and posted on another forum. The Mason's Lodge refused to charge and try him and now has filed an appeal to the GL on his behalf. They further state the 'trial' was close door and interest Master Masons were refused admittance or to give testimony on the accused behalf.

From what I read (my opinion) the GM's letter above is a lie when it stated there was a Grand Lodge Trial. ... It in fact was a committee trial/hearing and without proper notice to the accused so he could present a defense. Further, it was indicated the testimony of the offended witness (a woman) was proven to be a lie.

So this is why the Master Masons of the Shrine & the Members' home Lodge is supporting him.
 
I read that as well..... and while I do see the IP's point, for the sake of "harmony & peace" between the GL & Shrine International, the IP should have put the Noble on suspension pending the outcome of everything....... this issues with the Potentate has caused more to be harmed than just him......If cleared or the Shrine declared not an "appendant" body then the Shrine could have done as they wished.
 

cemab4y

Member
Brothers, there is more information coming to light. I received a very informative letter from the Imperial Potentate. Send me a Private message, with your email address, and I will send you the information that I received.

The Arkansas situation is bizarre. The basics are:

The potentate of Scimitar Shrine (Little Rock Ark) was expelled from Arkansas Masonry. The trial was held in secret, and not in accordance with procedure. Testimony was entered by telephone. The GL of Ark asked Iowa to expel him from the Iowa lodge where he held dual membership. The GL (Iowa) was not convinced that the trial and expulsion was proper. The GL (Iowa) declined to expel him from Iowa Masonry.

The Shrine decided that he was a Mason in good standing, and decided not to expel him from the Shrine. The GL of Ark then declared the Shrine in Ark to be clandestine. All Ark Masons are forbidden from entering a Shrine center. No Ark mason can wear Shrine jewelry. All references to the Shrine must be removed from all lodges in Ark.

This is a very sad situation.
 

Bro. Marc Houde

New Member
Brothers, there is more information coming to light. I received a very informative letter from the Imperial Potentate. Send me a Private message, with your email address, and I will send you the information that I received.
Why hide the information, it would be most helpful to post anything right here in the forum for all to see...
 

Winter

I've been here before
Here's my issue.

If the GM was improper in his proceedings then that will come to light and the expulsion would be overturned after the offended Brother appealed his case by the letter of the Code.

But for any Mason or Body to stand up and ignore the declaration of a sitting Grand Master and continue as if the incident never happened is 100% wrong.

The power of the Worshipful Master of a Craft Lodge or the Grand Master of a jurisdiction is absolute so long as he resides in the Oriental Chair.

Freemasonry is NOT a Democracy. A Master does not have to entertain any motion or discussion he does not wish to and not even the Grand Master can overturn his edicts while he is still the Master of a Lodge. After his term he can be brought to trial if his conduct is deemed to be unMasonic or illegal, but not while he is Master.

The WM is not even permitted to resign from his office. The only two ways he can leave the East is to die or to willingly terminate his own Masonic membership.

Any Appendant Body (read:Shrine) that sees itself as able to countermand, ignore, or deny the orders of the MWGM of that jurisdiction is W-R-O-N-G.

There. I vented. I feel better now! :1-wink-grin:
 

edwmax

Active Member
Here's my issue.

If the GM was improper in his proceedings then that will come to light and the expulsion would be overturned after the offended Brother appealed his case by the letter of the Code. ...
It has already come to light and the GL of Iowa has at this point refused to suspend the Mason. The Potentate of the Scimitar Shrine Temple is still a Master Mason in good standing in Iowa and still meets ALL requirements for shrine membership.

....
But for any Mason or Body to stand up and ignore the declaration of a sitting Grand Master and continue as if the incident never happened is 100% wrong. ...
The situation has not been ignored. But, the Members of this Mason's home Lodge found no grounds for trial and thus refused to Charge the Mason. As a result of the GM's actions, the Mason's Lodge has filed an appeal on the his behalf, as well as a number of grievances against the GM and his actions.

Oh .. as a point of interest, the 3 Lodge Members of the 2nd Investigating Committee who wrote & filed the appeal to the GL for the Lodge have since been suspended by the GM. ...???...

...
The power of the Worshipful Master of a Craft Lodge or the Grand Master of a jurisdiction is absolute so long as he resides in the Oriental Chair.
This is not true. The GM is subject to the Grand Lodge and must abide by the GL Code. The GM,s edicts if not ratified or codified by the GL will expire at the end of his term and is proof his edicts are not absolute.

...
Freemasonry is NOT a Democracy. A Master does not have to entertain any motion or discussion he does not wish to and not even the Grand Master can overturn his edicts while he is still the Master of a Lodge. After his term he can be brought to trial if his conduct is deemed to be unMasonic or illegal, but not while he is Master. ...
This is not true ether. While the only appeal of a Worshipful Master's order or rulings is to the GM, but a WM must still abide by the GL Code and is subject to removal from office and Masonic trial. ... Check your Code. .... And, the same; GMs can can be tried or expelled for Masonic offenses during their term, too. ... recent case in point is W. Va.

...
The WM is not even permitted to resign from his office. The only two ways he can leave the East is to die or to willingly terminate his own Masonic membership. ...
err ... I'd say this depends on the GL Code. ... My Code states the WM & his Officers (SW & JW) can not resign while he or any of the Officers or the Lodge is under charges.

...
Any Appendant Body (read:Shrine) that sees itself as able to countermand, ignore, or deny the orders of the MWGM of that jurisdiction is W-R-O-N-G.

There. I vented. I feel better now! :1-wink-grin:
The Shrine is not an Appendant Body of the Blue Lodge or GL; but an Independent Body, autonomous to its self. This has always been one of the problems in Arkansas. The GM thinks he rules the Shrine Temples in Arkansas. I believe in 2001, the Imperial letter so stated, when the GL of Arkansas re- recognized again, they did so as an appendant body. This was appealed then by the Imperial Shrine & Arkansas Temples; pointing out the request for recognition was not as an appendant body and they were not appendant body of the GL. The GL did not withdraw recognition then. ... The Shrine does not open & close any type of Masonic Lodge or preform any type of Masonic Ritual.

I'm not trying to argue with you, but the facts you are stating simply are not true.
 

Winter

I've been here before
edwmax,

I know my Code and what it says.

If your jurisdiction has become a Democracy, then that is not what our Masonic Fathers intended.
 

edwmax

Active Member
edwmax,

I know my Code and what it says.

If your jurisdiction has become a Democracy, then that is not what our Masonic Fathers intended.

I didn't say anything about my GL being a democracy, it is not. But my GM as well as your, and the GM of Arkansas still has to abide the GL Code.
 

Winter

I've been here before
The WM or GM doesn't have to follow the Code if he doesn't want to. lol And in Wisconsin, he can't be touched during his term in office.

101.02 Persons Not Subject to Discipline.
a) The Grand Master of Masons in Wisconsin or the Master of a constituent lodge is not subject to disciplinary action during his term in office, but upon expiration of his term he may be disciplined for unmasonic conduct while in office

Can you put a GM on Trial in your jurisdiction? What does your Code say?
 

jaya

Active Member
Wow, now that is interesting.

The GM can NOT do whatever he wants here.

SEC. 7-3 ORDERS, AND RESOLUTIONS.

An edict, decree, or order of the Grand Master, or a resolution of the Grand Lodge is effective immediately, but only so far as it conforms to existing laws and Grand Lodge interpretations of such laws. It shall remain in effect until rescinded or overruled or until a modification of the law renders it inoperative.
SEC. 7-5 OPERATION OF LAW NOT SUSPENDED.

Neither the Grand Lodge nor the Grand Master can suspend the operation of a legally enacted law unless by law expressly authorized. The law can be rendered inoperative only by formal repeal
REG. 11-9 RESIGNATION OF GRAND OFFICER.

A grand officer may resign by placing his written resignation in the hands of the Grand Master, or if it be the Grand Master who resigns then by his filing his written resignation with the Grand Secretary who shall immediately forward it to the successor in office of the Grand Master. Any vacancy thus created shall be filled as provided by law.
REG. 13-4 RESTRICTIONS ON POWERS.

The Grand Master has no authority to:

1. Delegate his power to grant dispensations for new lodges or other dispensations in his power to grant. [13-1.2; 13-2.16; 13-3.8; 39].

2. Give any decision, opinion, or other act in his official capacity which is to be kept secret from a lodge or suppressed from his report to the Grand Lodge. [13-5; 13-2.5].

3. Make Masons at sight. [52-6].

4. Grant a dispensation to confer a degree on one deemed by the lodge physically, mentally, or morally disqualified. [66-2; 68-15].

5. Interfere with a trial however, he may conduct a summary trial as provided by Regulation 91-13. [Chapter 90]

6. Introduce, or permit to be introduced, any rite or ceremony whatever unless first approved by the Grand Lodge. [2-6.9; 17-2; 34-19; 34-19.2].

7. Recognize another grand lodge or any other organization or body, unless and until the Grand Lodge has first formally and expressly recognized the same.

8. Authorize a lodge to join in the funeral procession of a deceased Mason unless the funeral is conducted by the lodge. [82-6.4].

9. Dispense with the examination of a candidate for advancement as required by THE CODE. [72-2.7].

10. Obsolete. (This subsection amended, effective 1/1 2009) [73-3.5].

11. Suspend or expel a Mason, except as provided by law. [91-13; 100-2]

12. Set aside, suspend, or annul the laws of the Grand Lodge, except as and when specifically authorized by law. [7-5; 13-1; 77-5.4]

13. Authorize anything specifically forbidden by THE CODE. [13-1; 77-5.4]
I cannot find any reference for not bringing charges against a sitting WM or GM.
 

edwmax

Active Member
There is no such code section in my GL's Code. ... In reference to WMs & officers of the Lodge ...
Code ...The Grand Master has authority to remove any elective or appointive Officer of a Blue or Symbolic Lodge, for cause. Under no circumstances shall he do so, however, without having first thoroughly investigated whatever allegations of cause for such action have been presented to him. ...
Now why would anyone think a 'sitting' GM can be tried while in office, since he is the one that has to prefer charges against himself. ... This is the reason a GM can be (has to be) tried after his term and the charges are then preferred by the new GM. Since my GL meets once a year, a new GM is then elected. ... To remove a GM from office to try him, he would have to be impeached. If a GL has Code to do this, it would take time. It would be easier to let his term run out.

Code ....
(This Grand Lodge shall have powers as follows: ) ...
1-204. Govern Craft.—To investigate, to regulate and decide all matters pertaining
to the Craft at large, and to particular Lodges, which it may exercise,
either by itself or by such delegated authority as it may, in its wisdom and discretion,
from time to time appoint; but in this Grand Lodge alone resides the
power of extinguishing Lodges, or expelling brethren
from the privileges of
Freemasonry, which power shall not be delegated to any subordinate authority.

....
4-101. Power and Authority.—The Grand Master shall have the power and
authority, during the recess of the Grand Lodge:

.....
6. To grant dispensations for processions, and exercise all such powers as
are warranted or required of him by the Ancient Regulations or Customs
of the Craft; provided, always, that he shall have no power to suspend
the operation of any By-Law of the Grand Lodge
.


....
71-102.1. Rulings and Edicts of the Grand Master.--- The Grand Master
may from time to time as he determines appropriate during his term of office,
issue a Ruling or an Edict regarding some question or issue of interest or
importance to the craft. A Ruling would only remain in effect for the term of
that Grand Master. An Edict would apply to a more significant question or
issue which may be enacted as Masonic law by the Grand Lodge in session and
then preserved in this Code. However, in the event the Grand Lodge does not
enact an Edict into Masonic law, it would only remain in effect during the term
of office of the Grand Master that issued it.
See Sec. 71-102.


.....
76-101. Masons of All Degrees Subject to Discipline.—Any chartered Lodge
has penal jurisdiction over all its members, whether Entered Apprentice,
Fellowcraft or Master Mason, regardless of their residence or of the place
where an offense is committed, and of non-affiliated Masons within its jurisdiction.
 

edwmax

Active Member
This is the problem when discussing GM & GL actions of other jurisdictions. We don't have their relevant Code. Most comments by form Members are made in relation to their own GL Code. ... Codes of different GLs do differ greatly. But I have yet to find a GM that could over rule his Grand Lodge. So his ruling and actions are not absolute; they can be over turned by the GL or the next GM.
 

Winter

I've been here before
Imperial Potentate Alan Madsen's Video Message for Arkansas Shriners. This video speaks to the heart of the issue. The Shrine sees itself as an independent and sovereign organization instead of an appendant body of Freemasonry and subject to the laws of the Grand Lodge. I say let them go along with all the "Brothers" who maintain their Craft Lodge membership in order to keep their Shrine membership.

http://freemasonsfordummies.blogspot.com/2012/12/message-for-arkansas-shriners.html
 

jaya

Active Member
If the are independant then they need to just get rid of the requirement to be a mm. They got rid of the SR or YR requirement. If they do not want to be masonic, then let them. I joined freemasonry to become a shriner. I doubt that is going to happen.
 

jaya

Active Member
Your right. I found other things that I had no idea existed. That combined with what I have learned about some of the things in shrine are the main reasons I have not joined. I did not join a college frat because I will not put up with the BS of hazing and such (plus I was older than most of them because I was in the Army first). I will not go through a hot sands where electricity is used for example. To me that is just childish and stupid. I don't care if it is all in "good fun". We do not haze our candidates in the BL, why should we do so in other masonic groups?
 

cemab4y

Member
Why hide the information, it would be most helpful to post anything right here in the forum for all to see...
I am not hiding anything. The format of the documents are such that I can't get them on this board (due to a technical glitch). If anyone wants them, I can send them through an ordinary email. (So far no one has asked).
 
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