Working Tools of an Entered Apprentice (Emulation)

Winter

I've been here before
I disagree with your assertion that the Fellowcrafts were the overseers of the work and verified the work. That is just not how medieval craft guilds worked. In the medieval guild system an Apprentice would be sent to work for a Master for several years (5-9 depending on trade) with no pay while he learned the craft from his Master. As the Apprentice progressed he would become a Journyman or Fellow of the Craft where he continued to work for His Master. The major distinctions at this level were the ability to marry and the ability to receive modest pay. Only after the Journeyman finished his "Masters Piece" would he be able to become a Master of the Craft. This new status would allow him to set up his own shop and take on his own Apprentices.
 

edwmax

Active Member
...

On to the substance of your paper. You claim that the Chisel is indeed found in the American Working and is part of the Common gavel since it can perform the same role as a chisel. You are partly correct in that the Common gavel, what is most likely a walling hammer today, can perform the same functions as a chisel, especially in the hands of a skilled workman. ...
A walling hammer is just a another type of stone mason hammer with chisel side a different configuration and so is a brick hammer. These hammers had varied chisel side just the same as the different hand chisels. ... why carry 2 tools (to lose) when one dual purpose tool can do the same job???? ... I think it would be well if you state the definition of a 'Chisel'.


... But even a real stonenemason will tell you that you are not likely to get as smooth a finished stone with a walling hammer as you are with a hammer and chisel. A quick search showed multiple opinions that support my position. ...
That was the exact point I made in the paper for the 'finishing' chisel (Emulation) being use by a Mason with more advanced skills.


.... I believe you are trying to read the purpose of the Chisel into the description of the Common gavel in the American Rites when it is not actually there.
Not hardly. ... There many different Chisels to achieved different purposes, but in essence ALL chisels have only one function ... that is 'to cleave an object into or to shave a surface.
 

Winter

I've been here before
Ed, my point is that the American working does not have a working tool that charges the Brother to seek out more education. Calling the back end of the common gavel a chisel doesn't make it a chisel. It is the back end of the common gavel. And you agree with me that the wedge side of a common gavel does not perform as well as a true chisel. So is this telling the American Brother to only educate himself a little? Your paper appears to be attempting to add a 7th tool to the American workings that is not there.
 

edwmax

Active Member
Ed, my point is that the American working does not have a working tool that charges the Brother to seek out more education. Calling the back end of the common gavel a chisel doesn't make it a chisel. It is the back end of the common gavel. And you agree with me that the wedge side of a common gavel does not perform as well as a true chisel. So is this telling the American Brother to only educate himself a little? Your paper appears to be attempting to add a 7th tool to the American workings that is not there.
You still haven't defined what a chisel is. So i don't know that I agree with you. What I have said is the Common Gavel is the chisel for rough stone work and the (finishing) Chisel is for further smoothing and finishing the stone. AND, that is exactly as stated in the Emulation Ritual.

I further stated in the paper .... "Although the allegory is slightly different, both the US Ritual and the Emulation Ritual convey the same message of divesting our selves of vices, the excesses of life and preparation of the mind to receive an education (material & spiritual), which is to follow in the Fellowcraft degree and life."
 

Winter

I've been here before
<snip> I further stated in the paper .... "Although the allegory is slightly different, both the US Ritual and the Emulation Ritual convey the same message of divesting our selves of vices, the excesses of life and preparation of the mind to receive an education (material & spiritual), which is to follow in the Fellowcraft degree and life."
But the US stops at divesting ourselves of vices while the European ritual urges a Mason to seek out higher education is my point.
 

Gary2112

Troll Stomper
Staff member
But the US stops at divesting ourselves of vices while the European ritual urges a Mason to seek out higher education is my point.
Looks like Im going to have to purchase the Emulation Rites if Im going to follow this debate.
 

edwmax

Active Member
I disagree with your assertion that the Fellowcrafts were the overseers of the work and verified the work. That is just not how medieval craft guilds worked. In the medieval guild system an Apprentice would be sent to work for a Master for several years (5-9 depending on trade) with no pay while he learned the craft from his Master. As the Apprentice progressed he would become a Journyman or Fellow of the Craft where he continued to work for His Master. The major distinctions at this level were the ability to marry and the ability to receive modest pay. Only after the Journeyman finished his "Masters Piece" would he be able to become a Master of the Craft. This new status would allow him to set up his own shop and take on his own Apprentices.
I wasn't referring to the medieval guilds. I probably shouldn't have used the word 'overseer'. At the KS Temple there were 3300 overseers. These were the Masters of the different Lodges or divisions of laborers, therefore the overseer was the Master with the responsibility to see his men had proper work, tools, supplies; and were paid & feed. ... But if there were no 3rd degree (Master Mason), then who was an Overseer ... He was a Fellow of the Craft appointed to lead the Lodge.

The total count of labors for the Temple varied, but without the inclusion of the Tyrian labors, there was about 120,000 (+/-). ... This divided by the 3300 overseers makes the individual Lodges (work gangs) consist of 30 to 40 laborers.
 

Winter

I've been here before
I wasn't referring to the medieval guilds. I probably shouldn't have used the word 'overseer'. At the KS Temple there were 3300 overseers. These were the Masters of the different Lodges or divisions of laborers, therefore the overseer was the Master with the responsibility to see his men had proper work, tools, supplies; and were paid & feed. ... But if there were no 3rd degree (Master Mason), then who was an Overseer ... He was a Fellow of the Craft appointed to lead the Lodge.

The total count of labors for the Temple varied, but without the inclusion of the Tyrian labors, there was about 120,000 (+/-). ... This divided by the 3300 overseers makes the individual Lodges (work gangs) consist of 30 to 40 laborers.
It doesn't matter if you are referring to the medieval guilds or the Masonic Order prior to the Third degree. You still stated that the Fellowcrafts were the quality control which doesn't hold. Even when there was only two degrees, each Lodge still had a Master who was responsible for the work. Not appointed, but most likely elected with all sorts of political wrangling that we would find familiar. And while he is the Master of that Lodge (Masonic or otherwise) he would have been the Master, not just another Fellowcraft.

And you cannot use the lecture describing the building of The Temple of Solomon for any arguments because that is not an historical or factual account of the organizational structure of the workers and builders when the it was built. Either time.
 

edwmax

Active Member
Do you have a source that states that Fellowcraft were the ones responsible for the quality of the work and not Masters?
You are ignoring the very nature of the tools of the Fellowcraft. That was the differences of the six tools shown or given in the American Ritual. ... The Emulation Ritual adds the tools of the Master, which are tools for writing, and drawing the plans on the trestle board and layout the control lines on the ground. These tools require more advance knowledge of Geometry to properly use.

If you had ever done any project management of construction projects, then you would know the Master had his hands full just seeing that material, supplies, well trained men (40 or so), food and pay was available each week. The Master had other Fellowcraft doing the quality control and reporting to him. Certainly the Master was personally involve when a problem arised.

I used the term 'quality control' as a point of emphasis to stress the nature of those tools.
 

Winter

I've been here before
Yes, I have supervised projects and I get what you are saying. But you still will not address my point that the Emulation Ritual includes working tools that stress higher education while the American Rite does not. Your answer is to say that they are there, which I disagree. The larger issue is why did they add/subtract working tools when creating our rituals.

And I am still waiting on an historical source for your division of labor in either Masonry or the Craft Guilds.
 

edwmax

Active Member
...

And I am still waiting on an historical source for your division of labor in either Masonry or the Craft Guilds.
The Greatest History book ever written ... of course ... it lays on your Holy Alter. ... there is no other known historical reference which give a count.

see 1 Kings, chap 5, v 13-18 and 2 Chronicles, chap 2, v 17 & 18

Also, you might want to review this:
http://encyclopediaoffreemasonry.com/w/workmen-at-the-temple/
 
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