MM Topic Alchemy, Hermetics, and the Kabbalah... Oh my!

Winter

I've been here before
I think it comes down to a matter of perspective, Gary. Since kabbalah is part of the Jewish faith, for a non-Jew to practice parts of it would necessarily be seen as insulting or a perversion to a Jew. I think it would be the same if I, as a Jew, engaged in practices from other faiths that I was not an adherent of.
 

Duncan1574

Lodge Chaplain & arms dealer
I think it comes down to a matter of perspective, Gary. Since kabbalah is part of the Jewish faith, for a non-Jew to practice parts of it would necessarily be seen as insulting or a perversion to a Jew. I think it would be the same if I, as a Jew, engaged in practices from other faiths that I was not an adherent of.
How about the person who studies religions and has adopted practices from many faiths into their own 'blend' of belief in Deity?

OR how does the S/GAOTU practices of Freemasonry not fall into that regime of 'us/them' too? Example: the rituals of the GL of Wisconsin are rooted in Judao-Christian practices. So a Brother from another faith system might feel on the outside just from the opening and closing 'prayers' as prescribed on the GL?
 

Winter

I've been here before
How about the person who studies religions and has adopted practices from many faiths into their own 'blend' of belief in Deity?
People who take the buffet approach to religion is a whole other topic. I'm willing to delve into it, but it may become messy.

OR how does the S/GAOTU practices of Freemasonry not fall into that regime of 'us/them' too? Example: the rituals of the GL of Wisconsin are rooted in Judao-Christian practices. So a Brother from another faith system might feel on the outside just from the opening and closing 'prayers' as prescribed on the GL?
And Freemasonry, as far as I know it to be practiced, is not like that. True, many of our prayers come from the Torah. But if you look in the back of the Wisconsin monitor there are alternate prayers there that could be used if a Brother might be offended. Not many religions would go out of their way like we do to promote harmony.

And a side not, there's no such thing as Judeo-Christian. ;) The two religions are completely separate.
 

Duncan1574

Lodge Chaplain & arms dealer
People who take the buffet approach to religion is a whole other topic. I'm willing to delve into it, but it may become messy.



And Freemasonry, as far as I know it to be practiced, is not like that. True, many of our prayers come from the Torah. But if you look in the back of the Wisconsin monitor there are alternate prayers there that could be used if a Brother might be offended. Not many religions would go out of their way like we do to promote harmony.

And a side not, there's no such thing as Judeo-Christian. ;) The two religions are completely separate.
I was once a Pentecostal Christian zealot, now I have mellowed and I find nothing 'wrong' with an religion that celebrates Deity in all the variation that we have discovered so far.

I have read through the alternate prayers and yes they could ease the way, that would require the Brother to have the foresight to notify the Lodge he is visiting of his preference.

I agree with the Judeo-Christian note. Christianity is a highly successful Jewish sub-group. I have a propaganda article written old ago about that 'cult' and its aberrant practices...

On another side note, does anyone else 'like' not having to contemplate a gender-neutral pronoun before typing?
 

Gary2112

Troll Stomper
Staff member
I find this interesting. I find many adaptations of other religions in my particular faith. Being Anglican, the symbolism is everywhere in the church. I was raised Southern Baptist, and recently converted. As an esoteric Mason, I was floored when I first went to services. I felt like I was in Lodge. The references to Alchemy, Hermetics, and Kabbalah are unmistakable.
 

2SONDAD

Husband, father, son, Mason.
I agree with Gary- this is a great topic. I don't even know if I want to add my perspective- it's educational to just think about all the other points of view. Have to think about it some more.
 

Winter

I've been here before
<snip> I agree with the Judeo-Christian note. Christianity is a highly successful Jewish sub-group. I have a propaganda article written old ago about that 'cult' and its aberrant practices... <snip>
That's what I was talking about. Judaism and Christianity are so diametrically opposed that there really is nothing connecting our two religions. I am not saying Christianity is not valid. All paths to G-d are valid and true. But why Christianity feels the need to claim foundation from us is baffling. If every faith just tended their own garden and just focused on living in accordance with the tenets of their own faith, the world would be a much better place. Nothing is more insulting than when a Brother who should know better asks me when I am finally going to accept Jesus in my life. And it happens more than you think.

For some further reading on our perspective, see http://whatjewsbelieve.org/
 

Duncan1574

Lodge Chaplain & arms dealer
That whole conversion imperative is annoying. It just screams "my way is better" and its not! I believe on Deity, religion is a pathway to understanding Deity, all can teach a facet of Dirty.
 

Gary2112

Troll Stomper
Staff member
That's what I was talking about. Judaism and Christianity are so diametrically opposed that there really is nothing connecting our two religions. I am not saying Christianity is not valid. All paths to G-d are valid and true. But why Christianity feels the need to claim foundation from us is baffling. If every faith just tended their own garden and just focused on living in accordance with the tenets of their own faith, the world would be a much better place. Nothing is more insulting than when a Brother who should know better asks me when I am finally going to accept Jesus in my life. And it happens more than you think.
For some further reading on our perspective, see http://whatjewsbelieve.org/
I see your point, but to say that religion as a whole is without adaptation from older belief systems is rather narrow minded. For example, I'll pick on Christianity... Jesus Christ was a Jew. There is where the confusion with Judaism begins for Gentiles. On top of that, compare many of the stories in the bible with historical myth that predates Christianity, and you'll soon see that Christianity like other crusading religions is like the Borg from Star Trek. It assimilates other religions to bolster its following. Noah's ark vs. Gilgamesh for example.
 

2SONDAD

Husband, father, son, Mason.
I'll go with what I said earlier. I don't have anything valid to add- I find it very educational in nature. I too look at aish.com from time to time and I learn a lot.

I could stir the pot a bit, but I don't like to do so, just for the sake of doing so.
 

Winter

I've been here before
Not looking for the pot to just be stirred. I was just commenting that the interest in furthering the discussion appeared to be dead.
 

BukeyeJackson

ViMH Advisory Board
I find reading this topic fascinating, but I feel that my mind doesn't have a strong enough base to bring this together.
 

Gary2112

Troll Stomper
Staff member
I find reading this topic fascinating, but I feel that my mind doesn't have a strong enough base to bring this together.
You underestimate your mind. I think the topic is fascinating, and complicated as WB Winter has pointed out. If we don't bother to look in to, research, and discuss topics like these, we shall forever remain ignorant. Personally, I like the fact that Winter has brought to light the Jewish perspective on the Kabbalah. It's definitely food for thought, and has great potential for discussion if like minded Brethren are not intimidated.
 
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