Duncan1574
Lodge Chaplain & arms dealer
From this I will make broad assumption about you CoachN: You were brought up in a Judeo-Christian tradition/spirituality.
This begs a discussion question ofr all of us: If you were brought up in another tradition or with a broader background (multiple traditions or a change from one spirituality to another), would that have also broadened your references to include those traditions or would the basis of FM in the USA being mostly Judeo-Christian keep those references as the best choices?
Ashlar2006
Masonic Mafia
Forgive me , but I am as dumb as a bag of hammers , but here it goes .
The general overviews as stated above are great BUT I have been asked more direct questions such as why we choose certain men and dismiss others . I have been asked why a degree system , and why all that funny ritual . And many other questions that as Bro . Nagy stated becomes a slippery road . I too get all revved up and want to jump in but must remember who I am talking too and apply the brakes .
As to why we need men of good moral character and dismiss those who are not . As we use terms of operative Masonry , we need a ground of bedrock to place a strong foundation where can be built an edifice of strength and beauty . A house built on sand will not stand and thusly the moral teachings of Freemasonry would be lost on a man who is not of good moral character and would not make a strong Masonic "edifice" .
Why the degree system ? So we can present the new brother with the building blocks slowly and deliberately , one block at a time . We start out with the foundation , then we create the walls plumb and true , and they are cemented together with honesty , integrity and brotherly love .
What is with all that ritual ? It teaches us what it is to be a Freemason and how we should conduct ourselves as Freemasons . A man who is truly ready to be a Freemason in his heart will be moved by it and take the ritual to heart , a man who is not moved by it and sees it as silly or outdated is not a man we are looking for .
It would be a simple thing for a man to pay his petition fees , his dues and we hand him an apron and a few print outs on what it is to be a Mason and say "Okay , you are now a Master Mason ! " . But what would he truly learn ? Would he be moved by it ? Would he strive to better himself ? I think not .
Feel free to expand on , correct or add something new to anything I stated above .
The general overviews as stated above are great BUT I have been asked more direct questions such as why we choose certain men and dismiss others . I have been asked why a degree system , and why all that funny ritual . And many other questions that as Bro . Nagy stated becomes a slippery road . I too get all revved up and want to jump in but must remember who I am talking too and apply the brakes .
As to why we need men of good moral character and dismiss those who are not . As we use terms of operative Masonry , we need a ground of bedrock to place a strong foundation where can be built an edifice of strength and beauty . A house built on sand will not stand and thusly the moral teachings of Freemasonry would be lost on a man who is not of good moral character and would not make a strong Masonic "edifice" .
Why the degree system ? So we can present the new brother with the building blocks slowly and deliberately , one block at a time . We start out with the foundation , then we create the walls plumb and true , and they are cemented together with honesty , integrity and brotherly love .
What is with all that ritual ? It teaches us what it is to be a Freemason and how we should conduct ourselves as Freemasons . A man who is truly ready to be a Freemason in his heart will be moved by it and take the ritual to heart , a man who is not moved by it and sees it as silly or outdated is not a man we are looking for .
It would be a simple thing for a man to pay his petition fees , his dues and we hand him an apron and a few print outs on what it is to be a Mason and say "Okay , you are now a Master Mason ! " . But what would he truly learn ? Would he be moved by it ? Would he strive to better himself ? I think not .
Feel free to expand on , correct or add something new to anything I stated above .
G
Gary
Guest
Bro, your assumption is irrelevant to the books. What does his upbringing have to to do with anything?
Second, Read the ritual, and you'll understand why there are primarily biblical references.
CoachN
Builder Builder
Brother Russ,
Admittedly, I did go for references that were easily obtainable and readily available. I don't know if it was laziness <cough cough> ease, or my thinking that the audience I was writing for would better relate to material they were familiar with, or perhaps Godly direction being listened to.
I venture to say that I could have cross-referenced almost every one of them that was principle-based to any number of religious scriptures other than that which was Judea-Christian in origin and have equal or even stronger effect. The ones that were referring directly to characters would be more difficult BUT I'm sure that there are equal analogs in other religious texts that would apply as well.
I can imagine that this would be a great addition to another volume in the series! I do plan on focusing on the spirituality/religion in one of them. Including many different religion's scriptures would be a hoot! Neat!
Thanks,
Bro. Coach N
Duncan1574
Lodge Chaplain & arms dealer
Our upbring effects how we interact with the world, what things pop into our heads when we encounter something new. So background has much to do with what, we as Masons, do, act, & respond.
I have read the ritual(s) and I understand the references, I also know there are other traditions that share common elements and that have documents that could being more light to our rituals, some of those traditions are mentioned in The Builders, for instance.
Ashlar2006
Masonic Mafia
Hmmm , we have three different trains of thought going at once , is there going to be an order to how these discussions flow ?
CoachN
Builder Builder
Brothers, let me make efforts to address these. I think it may have some relevance.
I was born into a RC family. My mother was a "born and raised" RC. My dad converted from a Protestant branch of Christianity to marry her (From what I've been told, he was on his way to becoming a Deacon of his Faith.) I was surrounded by RCs, Protestants and Jewish people my first 14 years.
I moved from NY to central FL at 14. I was surrounded by evangelical-charismatic-grabholdofthisonesowecandunk'em Baptists for about one year. I moved to Tampa Bay soon after and migrated toward an Agnostic-I-truly-do-believe-but-really-don't-want-to-talk-about-it stance during my college days.
I eventually migrated toward a more spiritual than religious stance starting about my 29th year. I began doing comparative religious study at that time and have been doing so ever since. I thank M. Scott Peck, Rabbi Harold Kushner and Joseph Campbell for their gentle assistance and my eventual corruption/break from mainstream Faiths.
In 1997 I stumbled across some interesting theological classes and as a result of my interest, attendance and background service work, I was Ordained in 1998 as a non-denominational full-Bible Christian Minister. (Yes, I do weddings!) That eventually lead to my obtaining a "Doctor in Ministry" degree midyear in 2007.
I don't do anything with any of these "titles" other than try to keep my life as uncorrupted as possible and serve where I can. Currently, I "occasionally" teach graduate level comparative religious studies and spiritual-based subjects at the little school I was Ordain'd and Doctor'd at. They seem to like what I offer since I keep being asked back.
I hope this gives some insight into the author. I am familiar with other traditions and sources. I'm also embarrassed to admit that I am also a bit lazy when it comes to providing them all. And there are a bunch of them I could have added.
F&S,
Bro. Coach N
G
Gary
Guest
I interpreted your statement to mean that the author was biased in his use of scripture based on his religious upbringing. Your question as to why no other religious texts were referenced, was a simple answer for me.
The book is geared toward an EA> The ritual is specific, and so it only stood to reason that the references in this book would be familiar to that.
I understand your point about other religious belief systems and their similarities, but IMO, sometimes it's better to use the KISS method when first starting out in this line of education.
I dunno. I'm just crotchety this morning.
CoachN
Builder Builder
I took no offense. In Volume one I made reference to the Gnostic Gospels and Buddhism. When I make reference, I try to apply the KISS method and use material that most are familiar with. My background does influence this effort too.
If I believed the majority of the Brothers were of other Faiths, I would have used other resources. I may just do that in future books.
If I believed the majority of the Brothers were of other Faiths, I would have used other resources. I may just do that in future books.
G
Gary
Guest
Good question. I apologize if I pulled us too far off topic.
Ashlar2006
Masonic Mafia
No problem , just getting my footing .
G
Gary
Guest
To get back on track, Coach has a link to the Building Boaz Scavenger Hunt a few pages back. It covers 33 questions regarding the book. That may be a good place to start as a guide for our discussion.
I've printed out the list, and will write my answers in a notebook along with my own questions and observations. That way I can better participate in the discussion.
I've printed out the list, and will write my answers in a notebook along with my own questions and observations. That way I can better participate in the discussion.
G
Gary
Guest
I've always used the statement: "Freemasonry is a system of morality, veiled in allegory, and illustrated by symbols."
I go on to explain allegory and symbols by using the Square and Compasses as an example.
I go on to explain allegory and symbols by using the Square and Compasses as an example.
Ashlar2006
Masonic Mafia
I have never been able to get away with giving such short answers . Those who have showed a real interest are never satisfied and want to know more and more . I have a notebook where I write things down that strike my fancy or come to mind and what I posted on the previous page is what I scribbled down last night .
G
Gary
Guest
My approach to the question is the statement I used. I give a simple example of what the statement means. I generally get more detailed questions asked after that. But right off the bat, they have a brief understanding of Freemasonry.
I try not to go off on a long dissertation on Freemasonry right off the bat. Often times, once I've established what Freemasonry is... I then go on to tell them what it isn't.
That's worked for me countless times.
I try not to go off on a long dissertation on Freemasonry right off the bat. Often times, once I've established what Freemasonry is... I then go on to tell them what it isn't.
That's worked for me countless times.
CoachN
Builder Builder
Here's my shot at it...
Freemasonry Builds Builders. (That's all that it does or can do for those men who join and apply themselves toward what is shared with them.)
Freemasonry Builds Builders. (That's all that it does or can do for those men who join and apply themselves toward what is shared with them.)
- At first, Freemasonry directs their attention toward Building themselves, of which there are several Degrees of progression.
- Once they have successfully applied themselves toward this end, Freemasonry provides them opportunity to help others do the same.
- In addition to these two activities, Freemasonry provides opportunity for them to be involved in Building communities of men, whom are themselves committed to Building a better world, one man at a time.
Ashlar2006
Masonic Mafia
I like it .
CoachN
Builder Builder
Thanks Brother!
What chapter you up to? (if ya don't mind me askin')
(BTW - I'm about to head out now to pick up the first shipment of volume 4 - Building Janus! WAHOO!!!!!)