Can a person be Homosexual and be a Mason or Eastern star?

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removed12612

Guest
Fraternal organizations have been admitting women for years.... FOP....Fraternal Organization of Police....I know it is not the same.... I am looking for a specific reason why it would be wrong from the ritual or teachings to not allow a woman but it would be to admit a gay man...if we rule out moral standards
 
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VirKnight

Sir Knight & 32 GL of VA
I would say that if the ritual clothing were worn by a gay man and he experienced a warerobe malfunction (like Janet Jackson), none in the lodge would be embarassed, but if the same happened to a woman, I do not think that would be the outcome. Also with the woman, we might be sued.

Finally, I want to appologize for the length of my last post. I did not realize I was going for the marathon post. I really do see this as an important issue.

Our lodges, chapters, commandery's, valleys and orients are suffering with low attendence and we much understand our own feelings as we approach such issues. We do not want to harm the people who are here and working on making freemasonry a better and stronger community, like this board and likewise fireman99. We want to support what is right and to talk about it is the open is a wonderful thing!
 
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removed12612

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Bro VirKnight

Very good answer..... I appreciate the effort as I have gained valued knowledge fom your response. This is the reason I pose so many questions.... they are ones that run through my mind so I put them out for discussion so I can gain a better understanding. I do not have a personal problem with a gay man....ones that "flaunt" their sexuality I do have a problem with...as I do with a straight man.....
I just come from the mindset that the only dumb question is the one that you dont ask.... so I ask questions.... I have not made a full decision as to what I would do...I am trying to gain a better understanding as to were our personal moral standards come into play....
 
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VirKnight

Sir Knight & 32 GL of VA
My brother,

that is the exact purpose of freemaonsry! We want to help good men be the best they can through good council whispered in their ears. The tenets of freemasonry are fixed in time and space....brotherly love....truth.....relief. I promise you, and all of my brothers, I that I will never approach a question with less than an honorable attempt to find helpful information. I am a reseacher by trade, and a teacher by vocation. I really just want to offer help where I can. Thanks for the kindness of your response.
 
Duncan1574

Duncan1574

Lodge Chaplain & arms dealer
fireman99 said:
Fraternal organizations have been admitting women for years.... FOP....Fraternal Organization of Police....I know it is not the same.... I am looking for a specific reason why it would be wrong from the ritual or teachings to not allow a woman but it would be to admit a gay man...if we rule out moral standards
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I can think of none that would blackball a man for his sexual orientation as the lone discriminator.

The rest of my discussion in this thread was and has spurred conversation that I hope makes us more aware of a rough spot in our ashlars. Before I even contemplated Masonry I had to deal with that rough spot and I see were I am not done yet.
 
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removed12612

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You are more than welcome my Brother, it is wise council like you have whispered that makes good men better...I do have a question but I will sent via PM....
 
P

Psi Brr

Veritas vos liberabit
fireman99 said:
The answer for me to your first question is NO...
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'nuff said there, then! Thank you for clearing that up!

fireman99 said:
Why would you consider the known drug dealer immoral???...If he has not be arrested or convicted, arent you making an assumption?? Morality doe not have a right or wrong side....

Let me ask you this...if a Muslim was a member of your Lodge and he voted no on a candidate that he knows likes to have a beer or two...not a drunkard...but the Muslim Brother feels it is morally wrong to drink...is he wrong for following his beliefs?
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A known drug-dealer preys on others weaknesses to garner income; that is immoral.

The law has nothing to do with what is right and wrong; it has to do with the law, a series of man-made rules. Just because one does not get caught, does not mean that person is not doing wrong. Morality absolutely has a right and wrong side. That is, by definition, what morality is.

I believe Masons practice tolerance as one of their virtues; this includes others' faiths. Part of being true to one's faith, as I believe it, is to again remember to not pass judgment on another, lest we be judged. If that person habitually does harm to another whilst imbibing, THEN there is certain cause for a black ball. As it stands, we have a Muslim brother who has voted in the affirmative for candidates who imbibe. Again, drinking in and of itself is not the evil, it's the absence of temperance.

fireman99 said:
As far as free-agency, I think it is a choice...(IMHO)...science can be twisted to fit whatever you wish it to support. Just like laws....it is subjective to those making the interpretation....
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It can be reasonably argued there's far more twisting in religion than in science. When was the last time a war was started in the name of Science? For all its preponderance of "love thy neighbor" remonstrances, religion does more to separate people than bring them together. Science? not so much...

fireman99 said:
If those who are not in agreement with a gay man joining are to put aside their moral issue with homosexuality, then please give me a reason why you feel a woman is not acceptable as a mason. I know the definition of farternity .... give me a another reason. For the record, I am 100% against women joining.....
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That is, of course, if it is indeed a moral issue.

But that IS the reason. It IS a fraternity; otherwise it would be a club.
 
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removed12612

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No disrespect but VirKnight gave a more insightful explaination.... I find your answers to be intolerant of the conservative POV.... you moral right and wrong may or may not be mine....whose right and wrong do you use....

You are right about the war issue and religion BUT that is besides the point, science can be twisted to support you argument....or mine. We can look at the exact same thing and get two completely different answers.

So...since the drug dealer is garnering income from the weak, whats your views on this.... A casino worker.... they garner income from people at a disadvantage....is a person who works in the gamblimg industry to be excluded? is gambeling immoral?
 
Winter

Winter

I've been here before
fireman99 said:
Fraternal organizations have been admitting women for years.... FOP....Fraternal Organization of Police....I know it is not the same.... I am looking for a specific reason why it would be wrong from the ritual or teachings to not allow a woman but it would be to admit a gay man...if we rule out moral standards
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Because women as members are specifically addressed in the Landmarks but homosexuality is not.

Landmark Eighteenth and Landmark Twentyfifth.
 
Winter

Winter

I've been here before
This has been a very interesting debate. We, as Masons, are dealing with issues that our Brothers who came before us never dreamed of.

I'm also glad to see that it appears to be a civil discussion as well. Well done, Brothers.
 
Winter

Winter

I've been here before
fireman99 said:
Winter...did you see my PM???
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I did now. Interesting question. Not sure how I'd answer that one. I do think it is something that should be discussed.

I'd say we should bring that question into the thread for discussion, but since it involves aspects of the OB it might not be a good idea.
 
Duncan1574

Duncan1574

Lodge Chaplain & arms dealer
Winter said:
This has been a very interesting debate. We, as Masons, are dealing with issues that our Brothers who came before us never dreamed of.

I'm also glad to see that it appears to be a civil discussion as well. Well done, Brothers.
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I am very happy with the Brothers that I have met here, reasonable, thoughtful & thought provoking, glad I found this forum.
 
Ashlar2006

Ashlar2006

Masonic Mafia
Winter said:
I did now. Interesting question. Not sure how I'd answer that one. I do think it is something that should be discussed.

I'd say we should bring that question into the thread for discussion, but since it involves aspects of the OB it might not be a good idea.
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Fireman , is this the same PM you sent me ? If so , if we could figure out a way to post it without violating our OB then IT would make for an interesting topic .
 
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removed12612

Guest
Yes it is.... I have posed the question to several Brothers .....

I feel I should let everyone know that I do not dislike gay people, the questioning is to gain better understanding.... seeking several points of view gives one a broader spectrum to gain knowledge from.
 
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