Exclusivity of the Commandery

[KSigMason]

Based on the discussion in Banners of Royal Arch Masonry, I've decided to start this thread

Any discussion about RAM using banners from Judaism but barring Jews from the Commandary? Just curious.

The Royal Arch degree surrounds the building of the Second Temple and so the 12 Tribes is relevant, but going into the Chivalric Orders we leave the traditional story of Freemasonry (the building of King Solomon's Temple) and enter into legends and history of Christian knighthoods. The Illustrious Order of the Red Cross, a candidate comes in as a Royal Arch Mason and this first Chivalric Order is a transitional order from the traditional Judeo-Christian story of Freemasonry to the Christian body. In the Order of Malta and Order of the Temple you take vows aligning your faith to Christianity and the defense thereof. While I have a great love of all my Brothers regardless of their faith, I would not want to put them into a position of conflicting their faith when taking these vows.

Here is my kick off to this discussion.

 

[Bob Franks]

Before petitioning my local York Rite bodies I was asked something like [this WAS a few years ago...], "In a conflict involving a threat against Christian force, could you support the Christian side?"
I was not REQUIRED to profess the christian faith.

I am in another organization that is exclusive: National Sojourners, Inc. Unless voted in as an honorary member, a Master Mason must have served (honorably) as a military leader: commissioned or warrent officer, or (in the current rank system) E-7 or above. There has been some criticism about our entry requirements.

S&F

 

[Winter]

So the banners are not used in the Commandery? Just the Chapter or Council?

And while your description of the exclusivity of the Commandery is pretty, Brother, it does nothing to explain or justify what is essentially discrimination based on religious affiliation. Which, in a Masonic body is deplorable.

 

[2SONDAD]

The answer to those who cannot join for religious or other reasons, may be the Order of Judas Maccabeus. While very small and I don't believe widely recognized yet (maybe not at all??), it could one day be an alternate path for those not interested or unable to join the Commandery. (I have found very little information on the Order.) Personally, I have no issues with the Commandery being a Christian organization, as it doesn't represent all of Freemasonry. It may also be that I don't have a problem with it, because I have no desire to become a member.

I may be wrong (my wife says it happens a lot), but I believe there are recognized Grand Lodges that are Christian based, like in Sweden. I think there is a huge difference between an appendent body being Christian based and an entire Grand Lodge. To me, I think that is much more grievous.

 

[Gary2112]

So the banners are not used in the Commandery? Just the Chapter or Council?

And while your description of the exclusivity of the Commandery is pretty, Brother, it does nothing to explain or justify what is essentially discrimination based on religious affiliation. Which, in a Masonic body is deplorable.

I have yet to hear a valid explanation for such a rule. When pressed on the issue, I often hear the same statement that Bro. Franks gave... That it's not a requirement. Other staunch supporters of the order will argue that fact as being a direct violation of their documented regulations. IMHO, I submit that those who see no problem with such a discriminatory rule are for it only because they themselves are Christian and it doesn't effect them. When the crap hits the proverbial fan, I choose to stand with ALL of my Bro. Masons. I'm an Anglican Christian, and I flat out refuse to join out of principle. To each his own though... it's called free will.

 

[Winter]

Brother Bob, I do not want to join the Order of Maccabees. I think any body in Freemasonry that restricts membership based on that Brother's religion is wrong and goes against the fundamental principals of our Fraternity.

Brother Gary, I somehow doubt we will convince many Brothers.

 

[2SONDAD]

I understand Brother Winter, I don't want to join the either. I was just providing some additional information for discussion. In fact the more I think about it, the more I favor your and Brother Gary's position.

 

[Duncan1574]

It smacks of discrimination. What would the reaction be to a Pagan only order or Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, or Zoroaster? One of things that attracted me to Freemasonry was the inclusion of any Brother who believes in Deity, not your god or mine but the GAOTU.

 

[Gary2112]

I don't want my opinion interpreted as a bashing of the many good Brethren that are members, or of the York Rite. They joined for their own reasons and have experienced enrichment in their lives I'm sure. It's just that rule ( or misinterpretation of the rule) that sticks in my craw.

 

[Ashlar2006]

Well let's not lump all of the YR in with one body . There are no religious requirements for the Capitular and Cryptic degrees .

As for "Staunch supporters" , it is not our call , it is in the constitution of the Grand Encampment of the USA . Many try to twist it to say that anyone who will defend the Christian Faith may join" but that is not the rule . The State Grand Encampments and local Commanderies may not over rule the Grand Encampment of the US .

Do I agree with the rule ? NO , I am only a member because they need the money to pay the rent in our Temple .

I will add that the SR has no room to speak . Maundy Thursday is held before Easter . Here is what my Valley says about Maundy Thursday

"In the Rose Croix Chapter, these ceremonies constitute a solemn observance every year of the Passover or Paschal Supper on Maundy Thursday in Holy week, and then on Easter Sunday an inspiring observance of the Resurrection. "

Sounds Christian to me . As my Jewish brother in my lodge stated , "I joined the SR because I am a Jew and attended Maundy Thursday and what do I find ? Christianity ".

Now he was told " Well , you do not have to attend Maundy Thrusday if it offends you " . The same could be said for the YR also , one does not have to petition to receive the Orders of the Commandery .

We can argue this , disagree with this etc; etc; , but it still does change the fact that they will not change it or get rid of it . It has been around longer than any of us . But do not take it as I am defending the Commandery , I am not . I disagree with the National Sojourners because they only except men/Masons who were of a certain rank . I sevred my country and fought in a war just as they did but because I did not make a career out of it I am told I am not good enough for them . All I can do is ignore them and let them do their own thing .

I will not argue what I have just written , just added my two cents . I have attended my Valley's Maundy Thursday and the entire evening all they talked about in a nutshell was the Last supper , Jesus and his resurrection . Christianity rears it's head in SR also , just because they do not limit it to Christians only does not change the fact that some may or may not find it offensive .

 

[Winter]

Of course it won't change. The majority of Masons are on the inside and don't see the issue that having bodies within the craft that discriminate. Despite that this very practice undermines the very principal that makes Freemasonry great. But you can't bring this up because then you are accused of attacking Christianity.

And the solution of ignoring a problem always works out so great, doesn't it?

 

[Gary2112]

Well let's not lump all of the YR in with one body . There are no religious requirements for the Capitular and Cryptic degrees .

As for "Staunch supporters" , it is not our call , it is in the constitution of the Grand Encampment of the USA . Many try to twist it to say that anyone who will defend the Christian Faith may join" but that is not the rule . The State Grand Encampments and local Commanderies may not over rule the Grand Encampment of the US .

Do I agree with the rule ? NO , I am only a member because they need the money to pay the rent in our Temple .

I will add that the SR has no room to speak . Maundy Thursday is held before Easter . Here is what my Valley says about Maundy Thursday

"In the Rose Croix Chapter, these ceremonies constitute a solemn observance every year of the Passover or Paschal Supper on Maundy Thursday in Holy week, and then on Easter Sunday an inspiring observance of the Resurrection. "

Sounds Christian to me . As my Jewish brother in my lodge stated , "I joined the SR because I am a Jew and attended Maundy Thursday and what do I find ? Christianity ".

Now he was told " Well , you do not have to attend Maundy Thrusday if it offends you " . The same could be said for the YR also , one does not have to petition to receive the Orders of the Commandery .

We can argue this , disagree with this etc; etc; , but it still does change the fact that they will not change it or get rid of it . It has been around longer than any of us . But do not take it as I am defending the Commandery , I am not . I disagree with the National Sojourners because they only except men/Masons who were of a certain rank . I sevred my country and fought in a war just as they did but because I did not make a career out of it I am told I am not good enough for them . All I can do is ignore them and let them do their own thing .

I will not argue what I have just written , just added my two cents . I have attended my Valley's Maundy Thursday and the entire evening all they talked about in a nutshell was the Last supper , Jesus and his resurrection . Christianity rears it's head in SR also , just because they do not limit it to Christians only does not change the fact that some may or may not find it offensive .

Good Post Ashlar. Your last sentence says quite a bit. While the SR may have Christian overtones, it does not exclude any Brother from attaining it's highest degrees because of their religious belief. They leave it up to the Brother to decide to participate or not. That is the main difference that I see here. If you ask me, ALL bodies should be eliminated. If we spent more time putting our efforts in to our respective Lodges, topics like this would be a thing of the past.

 

[KSigMason]

So the banners are not used in the Commandery? Just the Chapter or Council?

No, the Royal Arch banners are not used in the Commandery, but we have our own set of banners and standards.

And while your description of the exclusivity of the Commandery is pretty, Brother, it does nothing to explain or justify what is essentially discrimination based on religious affiliation. Which, in a Masonic body is deplorable.

I don't know if it needs to be justified or excused necessarily, I just gave my opinion. On other boards I've seen this discussion get out of hand. To some it is a contentious subject.

I may be wrong (my wife says it happens a lot), but I believe there are recognized Grand Lodges that are Christian based, like in Sweden. I think there is a huge difference between an appendent body being Christian based and an entire Grand Lodge. To me, I think that is much more grievous.

You are correct. Some jurisdictions are Christian only. I also think that the Scottish Rite in England requires a Christian faith beyond a certain degree.

What would the reaction be to a Pagan only order or Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, or Zoroaster?

I would have no problem with that.

 

[CoachN]

I've stated this on other boards and was attached for saying it. What was put forth in the threads was a requirement to defend the Christian Faith above all others should a man desire to join.

I stated that Faith is a Choice, not a Decision. As a Christian, I realize that Christianity needs no defense. Thus it requires no one to defend it over any other Faith.

Now if they put a requirement to defend the right to Believe a Faith of Choice, that would be entirely different. To defend any Faith though is simply counter to what Faith is - a choice to believe not based upon any concrete evidence for or against. Evidence may destroy Faith: for our faith may be lost in sight.

Should evidence enter into the choice, one is no longer Faithful if one Choose to believe solely upon the evidence at hand. One Believes because one Chooses to Believe.

The personal Choice is worthy of defense!

 

[Winter]

I don't know if it needs to be justified or excused necessarily, I just gave my opinion. On other boards I've seen this discussion get out of hand. To some it is a contentious subject.

Duncan1574 said:
"What would the reaction be to a Pagan only order or Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, or Zoroaster?"
I would have no problem with that.

I am not attacking your opinion. I am attacking any Masonic body or jurisdiction that restricts membership based on a Brother's religious affiliation which absolutely should be justified by those bodies and jurisdictions that do so. Freemasonry is entering what may turn into a new Enlightenment where reason dominates and exclusion based on religion is not tolerated. Freemasonry has the potential to be a shining example of religious tolerance and acceptance. But not as long as we have Orders, Bodies and Jurisdictions that continue this practice. The discussion does not need to get out of hand or become abusive, but it is contentious.

And every Brother who believes that the answer is for non Christians to have their own exclusive body is, I believe, wrong. That solution would only serve to continue the divisiveness that has caused this argument. Freemasonry should strive for the ideal where all men who put their faith in one G-d can have a full portion of every aspect of Freemasonry. And I dare any Brother to challenge that assertion with a Masonic argument to the contrary.

 

[CoachN]

For your consideration:

1. ‎"For whenever the door of any Degree is closed against him who believes in one God and the soul's immortality, on account of the other tenets of his faith, that Degree is Masonry no longer." -- Bro. Albert Pike
2. ‎"If, anywhere, brethren of a particular religious belief have been excluded from this Degree, it merely shows how gravely the purposes and plan of Masonry may be misunderstood." -- Bro. Albert Pike
3. ‎"The obligation of the candidate is always to be taken on the sacred book or books of his religion, that he may deem it more solemn and binding; and therefore it was that you were asked of what religion you were. We have no other concern with your religious creed." -- Bro. Albert Pike

 

[Winter]

Careful, Bro. Coach. Some Brothers hate to have Pike quoted at them!

 

[Winter]

Seriously, though, Pike nailed it.

 

[goomba]

I have a question to help clarify something for me on this topic. I see Masonry and just the Blue Lodge. I see the appendant bodies as bodies that accept Master Masons but are not Masonry proper. While the organizations are Masonic I don't see them as being Masonry. As a new Master Mason I know I could be way off the mark, so please set me straight. Oh, and I hope I didn't just step on any toes. Thanks for the help.

 

[Winter]

If a Body requires a man to be a Mason in good standing to petition for association, then it is part of Freemasonry. Don't worry about stepping on toes. That's what I am doing! You are correct that Freemasonry is the Craft Lodge. (What is often called a Blue Lodge. Blue is the color of a Craft Lodge and thus has found its way into common usage) The contention is that any Body that is a part of Freemasonry that restricts membership based on that Brother's religion is not in keeping with Masonic ideals. By all means, please take part in this discussion and ask questions. But bear in mind that this argument (W. Bro. Pike was arguing this a century ago) is VERY contentious! Just remember your Ob. and you will be fine.