GO of France and Swedish Rite.

MOTT

New Member
Forgive me, and please correct me, if I get any facts wrong, and please bear with me as I lead up to my question.

One of the things that great,y attracts me to Freemasonry, and which had led me to petition, is the acceptance of men of all faiths, meeting together in brotherhood and fellowship. The fact that I can take my obligations on a Tanach, while a Muslim can take his on the Koran, a Christian can take his on the KJB, and others can take theirs on host ever they believe to be the VSL is wonderful, especially as it seems to be part of the foundation of the fraternity. I initially struggled with the exclusion of atheists, and don't really agree that an atheist's obligation would be any less solid, but I do think I understand that the GAOTU is the foundation of Freemasonry, so I understand the requirement.

I have read that the Grand Orient of France does not have this requirement. They allow complete "freedom of conscience" and therefore they do not reject. Man for not believing in a higher power (or the higher power). Most mainstream grand lodges, therefore, do not recognize them, considering them "irregular". Makes sense.

I have also read on this forum and elsewhere, that the Swedish Rite only accepts Christians, including the first three Craft Lodge degrees. The Swedish Rite is recognized as regualr by mainsream Grand Lodges.

So here is my question.

By accepting only Christians, it seems like the Swedish Rite is rejecting a very basic tenet of Freemasonry, a universal fraternalism of men who believe God, leaving it to the individual to worship God in his own way. A certain doctrine is required. A way to salvation is set by the fraternity. This seems to me to be unmasonic, though since I am not a Mason (or at least not yet), that is a fairly presumptuous statement. Please indulge me since I think it helps clarify my thought process.

Why then is the Swedish Rite accepted as regular? It feels like the flip side of the GO of France. Both seem to violate the basic tenet of brotherhood under God. As a non-Christian myself, it sends me the message that while the Grand Lodge in my jurisdiction may accept me, if another were to ban me because od my faith, well, that's no big deal.

If the Grand Lodge of the State of Israel decided to accepts only Jews, I wonder if it would lost the recognition of most mainstream Grand Lodges. I am certainly just speculating, but I have a feeling that a ruling like that would be considered unacceptable worldwide.

Please do not take offense at the question, but understand that it might make one feel as if one's faith is considered lesser, even if as,an individual you are seen as an equal.

Thank you

Ari
 

edwmax

Active Member
The Swedish Rite is not out of the norm. Freemasonry was Christian only (or more accurately Roman Catholic) up until about 1723 when the Constitutions by James Anderson that left the particular religious faith open. It was in England that acceptance of other faiths started. ... Freemasonry in Sweden remained with their Masonic roots. (???)

From the 1599 Shaw MS: ... Authority is given to the warden-deacon of Kilwinning to exclude from the lodges of the district all persons who wilfully fail to live up to "all the acts and ancient statutes set down from time immemorial," also all who are."disobedient to their church, craft, council and other statutes and acts to be promulgated hereafter for good order."

The Church was Roman Catholic up until the English split. Then it was the Church of England in England and Roman Catholic in Europe. It was the Church during the Gothic (12th to 15th century) & Renaissance (15th to 17th century) periods which required workers & Stonemasons on their projects to be Christian so as to not dessicated the 'Holy Ground'. of the Church

...
So here is my question.

By accepting only Christians, it seems like the Swedish Rite is rejecting a very basic tenet of Freemasonry, a universal fraternalism of men who believe God, leaving it to the individual to worship God in his own way. ...
Not true since the Craft Lodges of the Swedish Rite does allow any recognized Master Masons to visit. Further, ... Freemasonry is based upon the Old Testament of which Judeo, Islam, and Christine religions came. All three believe in the Same God and keep the Same Commandments. Of which the 1st Commandment makes it a sin to pray & worship with those that believe in a different god (dessication of Holy Ground). It is here that Christians, Muslims, and Jews have a problem with 'new-age' religions and those irreligious libertines which believe as long as a person believes in 'a' god (any) can be a Freemason.

...A certain doctrine is required. A way to salvation is set by the fraternity. This seems to me to be unmasonic, though since I am not a Mason (or at least not yet), that is a fairly presumptuous statement. Please indulge me since I think it helps clarify my thought process. ...
Nowhere in Freemasonry have your read that. .... Dogma and the way to salvation is set by one's own faith and his Church. These are the part of the "... leaving their particular Opinions to themselves" which is stated in James Anderson's Constitutions.
 

MOTT

New Member
Thank you, edwmax, for your response. I always enjoy your responses to questions (I have read many on the GL of MA forum) because there is always some history to be learned.

I do think you may have misunderstood me at one point, though. You said that I have not read anything in Masonry that says there is a religious doctrine. In that you are quite right. All that I have read states the opposite. However, I have inferred from the exclusion of non-Christians from the Swedish Rite that the SR requires that it's members subscribe to at least a broad Christian doctrine. Perhaps doctrine is the wrong word. However, whether or not I using the correct word, the message I am receiving, rightly or wrongly, is that because I am a Jew, I am less. Yes, if I were a Master Mason, I would be welcome to visit, but never to stay. That tells me that while I may be a dear friend, I am not a brother.

Your quote from James Anderson's is one of the key tenets of Freemasonry that is putting me on this path.

.... Dogma and the way to salvation is set by one's own faith and his Church. These are the part of the "... leaving their particular Opinions to themselves" which is stated in James Anderson's Constitutions.
I wish this were true of all Freemasonry.

However, my own faith tells me that nothing on this earth is perfect, so this lack of perfection does not diminish my desire to join The Craft. I am sure I would not be the first Master Mason (should I be so honored to be initiated, passed, and raised) to look at other Grand Lodges, and even his own, and wish some things were different.

Thank you again for sharing your knowledge. I hope that this helps me to continue on my journey toward true brotherhood, so that I my being my own contribution to Freemasonry, experience true brotherhood, and become a better man.

Hopefully I used the quotes correctly. It is hard to tell with the app I am using.
 

edwmax

Active Member
Thank you, edwmax, for your response. I always enjoy your responses to questions (I have read many on the GL of MA forum) because there is always some history to be learned.

I do think you may have misunderstood me at one point, though. You said that I have not read anything in Masonry that says there is a religious doctrine. In that you are quite right. All that I have read states the opposite. However, I have inferred from the exclusion of non-Christians from the Swedish Rite that the SR requires that it's members subscribe to at least a broad Christian doctrine. ....
The statement in question was:
MOTT said:
...A certain doctrine is required. A way to salvation is set by the fraternity. This seems to me to be unmasonic, though since I am not a Mason (or at least not yet), that is a fairly presumptuous statement. Please indulge me since I think it helps clarify my thought process. ...​
I read that as a generic statement usually from Christian anti-Masons trying to make Freemasonry into a religion. I don't think the Swedish Rite intentionally is trying to infer that, but your interpretation of Christian only. I haven't done any detailed research on the Swedish Rite to see why they remained Christian. I think they simple stayed with the old customs.

.... I wish this were true of all Freemasonry. ....
Freemasonry is made up of Men who are trying to be better. As a result each Lodge has it own characteristics and failings.
 

edwmax

Active Member
OK ... I just did a quick religious demographic check of Sweden. They have a high population of Lutheran, Church of Sweden (78 -80 %) and Roman Catholic, Baptist, Pentecostal. The Freedom of Religion Bill was passed in 1951, which removed obstacles against Non-Lutherans working government & public jobs. ... So it seems Church of Sweden (Lutheran) was (or is ??) the state religion. ... This can easily explain why Freemasonry remained Christian only and stayed with the Old traditions.
 

MOTT

New Member
Rest assured that I am no anti-mason. I merely had a question about something that bothered. I had, in fact, been hesitant to ask because I have seen many questions responded to as if they were attacks, rather than just questions (which is understandable, but could be a turnoff for someone going to an "ask a mason" forum with an honest question).

However, when I posted to introduce myself on in the "initiation" section of the forum, I was encourage to join the discussion, and in fact "stir things up". While my intention is not actually to stir things up, I did take that as license to be less timid in asking my question. I hope you can see that I asked it as respectfully as I could.

I must admit that I am curious what others might think of the question, and of some of the differences between jurisdictions. However, I would not want anyone to feel they are airing any dirty laundry, so I can wait until I have (hopefully) gone through the three degrees and see if I even still have the question.
 

MOTT

New Member
OK ... I just did a quick religious demographic check of Sweden. They have a high population of Lutheran, Church of Sweden (78 -80 %) and Roman Catholic, Baptist, Pentecostal. The Freedom of Religion Bill was passed in 1951, which removed obstacles against Non-Lutherans working government & public jobs. ... So it seems Church of Sweden (Lutheran) was (or is ??) the state religion. ... This can easily explain why Freemasonry remained Christian only and stayed with the Old traditions.

Now that is quite interesting. 1951? My education in European history which was actually pretty good, did not focus much on Sweden. The great powers loomed large. My new brother-in-law spent most of his life in Sweden ( though he is Icelandic). It would behoove me to learn more about it.


Thanks again. Less than a week until I meet with the Pre-application committee at the lodge.
 

2SONDAD

Husband, father, son, Mason.
I actually enjoyed reading this. I not only learned something, but I found it interesting as a Master Mason and a Jew. Thank you for asking Mott and thank you for answering Brother Edwmax.
 

edwmax

Active Member
A good description of the Swedish Rite and its structure can be read at http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/swedish_faq.html

The Swedish Rite is pure strict observance of the York Rite with some Rosicrucianism and French flavoring mixed in. The Christian requirement is basic to the York Rite & Knights Templar degrees as members are expected to advance in the degrees.

The structure of the Grand Lodge and degrees are similar to the pre 'Unification' of 1813. Until recently (less than 20 years) the Grand Master was the King or a member of the Royal Family. ... This helps to explain why Freemasonry remained 'Christian only' as the State religion was (or is ?) Church of Sweden (Lutheran) and why the Swedish Rite is York Rite in structure.

Much of this I had read years ago and forgotten. Thanks for asking the question, it refreshed my memory.
 

asgard

New Member
My understanding is, that, since Swedish Masonry is only open to Christians due to Charter or tradition; they have have been able to circumvent that, by allowing the Grand Lodge of Finland to intervene in Sweden, thereby allowing Swedish non-Christians to Petition Masonry, and reciprocally, the GL of Sweden operates in Finland, possibly catering to the Swedish speaking Finns? The Grand Lodge of Finland is not exclusive to Christians, and received their Charter in 1922 from the GL of New York, thereby tracing it's origin to UGLE.
 

Triangle

New Member
The swedish rite works in Scandinavia and Germany, whre its name is Große Landesloge der Freimaurer von Deutschland (GLLLFvD) Freimaurerorden (Grandlodge of Freemasons of Germany, Order of Freemason). The GLLFvD works under the jursidiction of the United Grandlodges of Germany VGLvD) and the jursidiction of the UGLoE and the Grandlodge of Sweden. MEmebers of the VGLvD are AFuAM FRee and accepted masons) BFG (British freemasons of Germany
ACGL, and NAtionale Mutterloge zu den drei Weltkugeln (oldpussian Grandlodge like GLLFvD). More information you receive here: www.freimaurer.org, www.freimaurerorden.de and www.freimaurer-wiki.de.

The members of GLLFvD do not have to be christians (no batism, no membership in a christian church) but have to accept the wisdom and "good news" of Jesus who is the symbolic grandmaster of die GL.

There are three general steps wihin the GLLFvD:

St-Johns Lodge (1. to 3. degree)
St Andrews Lodge (4. to 6. degree)
Chapter (7. to 10. degree)

The chapters are working like the YR.

There is no link to the GOdF. But some bretheren who wants to stay regular after the break with UGLoE quitted the GOdF and became regular bretheren of lodges of the GLLFvD and ACGL. ACGL also founded new logdes in Germany near the border to France to give these bretheren a regular home in fremasonry.
 
Hi Mott,

I think you are starting from a position of inaccuracy which is fueling your speculation.

Look at the question again but before you do so bear in mind the fact that there is not one Freemasonry around the World but actually many Freemasonries under many many Grand Lodges and each and every one of these flavours of Freemasonry are quite at liberty to limit their membership to whoever they please. This includes the matter of any religious qualification that they wish to adher to.

Each of these separate, distinct and sovereign Grand Lodges are able to ask for recognition from other Grand Lodges and it is this "recognition" that make some non-Masons think that there is just one "world-wide" Freemasonry.
 
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