Wow... This will get ugly fast...
Freemasons For Dummies: GL of Michigan Withdraws Recognition of Shrine
Freemasons For Dummies: GL of Michigan Withdraws Recognition of Shrine
Michigan withdraws recognition of the Shrine
- Thread starter Gary2112
- Start date
removed12612
Guest
yep....I was getting ready to post this....
removed12612
Guest
This could be another step in the Shrine no longer requiring masonic membership....
jaya
Active Member
If that were to happen the edict could still stand and everyone in that state wanting to be in the shrine would have to choose between them or freemasonry. The way I read it, the GM was well within his rights to issue that edict. If someone confesses to a felony then they should be expelled.
PatrickWilliams
I could tell you ...
Yes, it could. But keep in mind that, so far, whenever they've thought of doing this, the membership rebels. There is too much Masonry in the Shrine: if they are ever to separate from us, they'll have to change an awful lot of who and what they are to be able to do it.
Duncan1574
Lodge Chaplain & arms dealer
I commented over there (points at another thread) about this very subject, why they could remove the requirement and invite WOMEN to join or (old guys, kids, drool cuppers local village guild #id10t.)
It will be interesting to see what would happen. Especially after everything with my son, I'm a strong supporter of the Hospitals and the work that is done. Even more so in times when health insurance companies seem to do everything to try and make your live miserable and take every last cent you have. But I best stop talking about them.
I would not like to see women joining, they have several Shriner related things they can join. Maybe it is because I can see the wife wanting to join, and as she says, I need time away with the boys.
I can see both sides taking a hit. Those that claim 1.5 million a day in charity can no longer use that statement, as most of that is from the Shrine. Shrine will loose a lot of good men. But the BL will not get those who come in just to join the Shrine, and possibly loosing those that may see the light even though they did not expect it. But Shrine membership could improve as some may not want to join Freemasonry to be a Shriner.
But we can speculate all day, and still be totally off what can happen.
I would not like to see women joining, they have several Shriner related things they can join. Maybe it is because I can see the wife wanting to join, and as she says, I need time away with the boys.
I can see both sides taking a hit. Those that claim 1.5 million a day in charity can no longer use that statement, as most of that is from the Shrine. Shrine will loose a lot of good men. But the BL will not get those who come in just to join the Shrine, and possibly loosing those that may see the light even though they did not expect it. But Shrine membership could improve as some may not want to join Freemasonry to be a Shriner.
But we can speculate all day, and still be totally off what can happen.
Well, That's what Freemason's do isn't it? :1-say-yes:
removed12612
Guest
Not sure what there is to speculate..... they guy did plead GUILTY and the GM DID expel him all with in the authority afforded him as the GM of MI. The SHRINE DID violate it OWN policy of requiring that all members remain in good standing with the GL.
Now... dont get me wrong, if the Shrines wishes to keep the guy...that is on them... just drop the masonic connection and become a philanthropic group and allow men or women.....
Now.... just to throw a monkey wrench into the mix..... WHAT IF another GL accepts him and puts him through the degrees again.....
Now... dont get me wrong, if the Shrines wishes to keep the guy...that is on them... just drop the masonic connection and become a philanthropic group and allow men or women.....
Now.... just to throw a monkey wrench into the mix..... WHAT IF another GL accepts him and puts him through the degrees again.....
There is plenty of room for speculation. This action affected the entire state of Michigan. It's ramifications will undoubtedly resonate through that jurisdiction, and cause a great deal of turmoil before the end result is known.
It was the equivalent of dropping a nuclear bomb on an ant hill. The fix is not as simple as it appears.
removed12612
Guest
Yea ...we can speculate the aftermath...... not the facts in question.... he did plead guilty (2-2011 according to MI records).....and the GM acted within his powers..... and the Shrine did violate their own rules....
Casey
MM, RAM, 32nd.
The Shrine violated their own rules (and the rules agreed upon with GLoM), so it would seem automatic that the Shrine would thus be considered irregular.
It's an uncomfortable situation, to be sure.
removed12612
Guest
Casey..... I just wonder how this will effect Brothers such as yourself that may potentially be a MM in state but in the Shrine in another.... example MM under the GL of OH but a member of the Shrine in Michigan..... not a far fetched possibility there in Toledo is it...
removed12612
Guest
I can relate...while not in the Shrine, I am SR & RA in OH but MM in IN
say that fast ten times..............
Bluetemplar
New Member
Shrine?
I am a Mason and while I have been asked to join the Shrine I have yet to become a member. I am by vocation a comissioned police officer and have always held my masonic membership to mean that I am not the exception to the law and morality but the rule.
I say this also because I know of many brother masons, and shriners who may also be in a similar dillema. With police and veteran Shrine clubs that espouse the best of our community both active and retired.
While I am certain my local Shrines in Harrisburg and Reading would not place me in such as position where I would be answering to a convicted felon at a meeting given the rather large sum of its membership being law enforcement. Imperial's actions do concern me, and leads me to believe that hopefully we are getting only part of the story. Thusfar Zembo or Rajah can count on my eventual membership in the A.A.O.N.M.S. and I pray this will be an issue for Michigan not the broader community.
I am a Mason and while I have been asked to join the Shrine I have yet to become a member. I am by vocation a comissioned police officer and have always held my masonic membership to mean that I am not the exception to the law and morality but the rule.
I say this also because I know of many brother masons, and shriners who may also be in a similar dillema. With police and veteran Shrine clubs that espouse the best of our community both active and retired.
While I am certain my local Shrines in Harrisburg and Reading would not place me in such as position where I would be answering to a convicted felon at a meeting given the rather large sum of its membership being law enforcement. Imperial's actions do concern me, and leads me to believe that hopefully we are getting only part of the story. Thusfar Zembo or Rajah can count on my eventual membership in the A.A.O.N.M.S. and I pray this will be an issue for Michigan not the broader community.
PatrickWilliams
I could tell you ...
Now, wait just a minute here: we don't know that the Shrine violated their own rules. Rules vary from State to State and, in many, it is next to impossible to unseat someone in the 'Oriental Chair'. They may have to wait until his actual conviction to do anything. Simply; we don't know what the Michigan Shrine laws are.
The issue here that jumps up and smacks me in the head is: why hasn't the Brother in question removed himself from the Potentate's seat in the Shrine? Does he care so little for the reputation of the Shrine and/or Masonry?
I remember, lo, those many years ago, when I first became a Shriner. The International began to talk about letting non-Masons in and the GM of Oklahoma immediately declared the Shrine clandestine. That was enough for International to drop the subject. We'll see what Michigan's declaration can do, but the fact remains that we do not have all the information.
removed12612
Guest
According to the letter from the GM of MI...he DID violate the requirements to be a Shriner...which universally are to be a mason in good standing...which he isnt...he is EXPELLED
AND he is CONVICTED and SENTENCED....it happened in Feburary.... actually 2-16-2011 to be exact.
NOT much to speculate there.....
See... I told you this would get ugly. Instead of condemning the potentate or whatever he is (I'm not a Shriner, so I don't know the hierarchy), Lets try and figure out what could possibly happen next.
We know there was a conviction... Now what are the possibilities? I don't buy into the thought that the Shrine will drop it's Masonic requirement for membership.
We know there was a conviction... Now what are the possibilities? I don't buy into the thought that the Shrine will drop it's Masonic requirement for membership.
removed12612
Guest
It has been brought up for vote several times by the Imperial Shrine....aka the top dogs for the Shrine. This would be perfect time.... AGAIN