If they separate it will affect both organizations. Some will join the shrine without joining a lodge and others will quit the shrine because they are not masonic any longer.
Ive seen quite a few join Masonry with the sole intention of joining the shrine.If they separate it will affect both organizations. Some will join the shrine without joining a lodge and others will quit the shrine because they are not masonic any longer.
Someone beat me to it . Looks like this may spread , I was at a sister lodge last night and some newly demitted Shriners were complaining about our local Shrine refusing to drop from their rolls suspended/expelled Craft lodge members . They said that is why they demitted , and said this has been going on for years .
The Shrine requires ALL members to be Master Masons in good standing. The definition is somewhat "elastic". Consider the case in Arkansas. A man was expelled from Arkansas Masonry. The legitimacy of the expulsion, is, shall we say: "questionable". The trial was a "kangaroo court", and was conducted not in compliance with the constitution and by-laws of Arkansas Masonry. The trial was a travesty. The individual who was expelled, was also a dual member of a lodge in Iowa. The Grand Lodge of Iowa refused to recognized the phony expulsion. The individual is still a Master Mason in "good standing" in Iowa.
The Imperial Shrine has decided to keep the man on the rolls, because he is still a Master Mason in good standing.
The South Carolina situation has some parallels.
(Emphasis mine)The Shrine requires ALL members to be Master Masons in good standing. The definition is somewhat "elastic".
--I do not believe it is correct and proper for the Shrine to keep men on its rolls who are not Master Masons in good standing. Men who have been legitimately expelled, or demitted (from Craft Masonry), should be shown the door. Since I am currently demitted from the Shrine, I plan to wait and see how this situation "shakes out". You are quite correct, that I have stated that I will not participate in the Shrine, if the Imperial Shrine breaks entirely from Masonry, and permits anyone to join. Then it will cease to be the Shrine (at least the Shrine that I joined in 1989).What happened in Ark. has no bearing on SC and many other states . The Shrine REFUSES to drop from their roles suspended/expelled MMs' . It goes on in my local Shrine temple and it goes on in many others . I have read the GM of SC's letter , have you ? Or are you just shooting from the hip and knee jerk defending the Shrine ?
--I have read the letter from the GM of SC. I find myself in agreement. The Shrine requires that ALL members be MMs in good standing. I support this requirement. (I have demitted from the Shrine, for some years, because of my international work). If a Shriner is legitimately expelled from craft Masonry, he should be also summarily expelled from the Shrine. When my career and life are more stable, I intend to re-join the Shrine. If the Shrine breaks entirely from Masonry, and permits anyone to join, I will not participate in the organization at all. Many people think that the Shrine was set up for the hospitals. Although I think the hospital program is fantastic, it is not the reason for the Shrine. The Shrine was set up in 1872, and the first hospital opened up in Shreveport in 1922, 50 years later.
I am tired of these Shrine apologetics , either the Shrine is for Master Masons in good standing or it is not and should break ties with Masonry and allow anyone and everyone in . I am not Shrine bashing , I would raise just as much hell if it was the YR , SR , OES etc; etc; , if you are open to Master Masons in good standing only , then these Master Masons should be in good standing , it does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out . (leaving Arkansas out of the mix) The term is not "elastic" , it means in GOOD FREAKING STANDING , if a man has not paid his dues and does not have a paid up , up-to-date dues card then he IS NOT in good standing . If he has been expelled , then he IS NOT in good standing .
--This is where the Arkansas situation comes in. A man was expelled from Arkansas Masonry, I believe improperly. The trial was a sham. The individual held dual membership with an Iowa lodge. The GL of Iowa decided not to recognize the Arkansas expulsion. Is the man a Master Mason in "good standing"? The Iowa GL says that he is. The Imperial Potentate of the Shrine says that he is. I have not yet made up my mind on this man, and I really have no opinion. What do you think about the Arkansas situation? Is the expulsion proper and in conformance with the regulations of the GL of Arkansas? Should Iowa recognize the expulsion, and also expel him from Iowa Masonry?
Do you Charles think it is fine for the Shrine to keep suspended Masons (some of whom who have been suspended for more than a few years in my local Shrine Temple and couple who were expelled for ...... never mind ) in good standing in the Shrine ? I believe I have read it myself on some forum where you have said that you would not be a member if they broke ties and allowed non-Masons in as members , well they are doing that very thing now ! A man suspended or expelled from Craft Masonry IS NOT a Mason .
But many grand lodges have had this issue, so in my mind it has to be the Shrine.