removed12612
Guest
Just a little twist on the question..... can one do M/E without going down the esoteric path?
removed12612
Guest
Not a loaded question, I am pondering this myself
Winter
I've been here before
Am I allowed to comment yet?
One can study the history of Freemasonry, but I doubt it would be complete without looking at the volumes written about the esoteric societies and traditions that may have had an influence.
You could study the symbolism of Freemasonry but the moral application of those symbols and tools applied to a Mason's growth heavily touches on the esoteric.
The routine administration of a Lodge is rather mundane but again, the reason some officers perform certain duties in the Lodge structure has definite esoteric roots.
Others may disagree but I do not believe that a proper study of Freemasonry can be had if you take the esoterica out of it. And if you do take it out, the rich teachings become far to bland.
removed12612
Guest
yes...I generally hope for a response from you.....and a few other well learned Brothers...
BTW...Thanks for your thoughts...
removed12612
Guest
Man.... either I have lost my touch to stimulate a conversation or everyone is ignoring me..... hmmmmm.....
BukeyeJackson
ViMH Advisory Board
I try but...
I think that goes back to you get out what you put in. If someone came in to be a show-mason then the superficial lessons educate you. Higher learning is still education but the man content with being a car mechanic who is doing wel has no need for the education. Or Stone Cold Steve Austin once told a person that he had no need to complete his college education. His wrestling education left him well enough off not to need to the other to live happily.
G
Gary
Guest
LOL... Yes... (inside joke folks)
Don't we all!
"Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius."
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
"Mediocrity doesn't mean average intelligence, it means an average intelligence that resents and envies its betters."
Ayn Rand
Ashlar2006
Masonic Mafia
I know this is not adding to the conversation but I would like to relate an interaction I had last Spring with an older member ... It goes with what Coach said in his post on page 1...
I have my educational officer read papers on Masonry . Very interesting stuff that shed light on the esoteric . I had an older member walk up to me after I closed lodge and told me "That was not education on Masonry , reading from the by-laws and constitution is education ." I stared at him for a second and said "No , that is education on the laws and rules of our lodge and jurisdiction , but it is not education concerning Masonry ." . Knowing that it is against the rules to elect an officer by proxy is not education on the deeper meaning of the ritual/symbolism of the degrees .
I have been educating the brothers in my lodge on the difference between Freemasonry and Masonry now . Some get it , some don't .
I have my educational officer read papers on Masonry . Very interesting stuff that shed light on the esoteric . I had an older member walk up to me after I closed lodge and told me "That was not education on Masonry , reading from the by-laws and constitution is education ." I stared at him for a second and said "No , that is education on the laws and rules of our lodge and jurisdiction , but it is not education concerning Masonry ." . Knowing that it is against the rules to elect an officer by proxy is not education on the deeper meaning of the ritual/symbolism of the degrees .
I have been educating the brothers in my lodge on the difference between Freemasonry and Masonry now . Some get it , some don't .
CoachN
Builder Builder
kudos!!!!!
G
Gary
Guest
Actually, this is very germaine to the conversation Brother!
And there you have it folks... A Masonic revolution is underway! If more of us did this it would be unstoppable.
removed12612
Guest
It sounds as if some are confusing Masonic Education and Freemason etiquette. I know may that are well versed in etiquette but lack knowledge. Just a question for those smarter than I: When teaching M/E, where does the historical aspects of our fraternity fit in? Is it part of Freemason Education?
G
Gary
Guest
I don't know that I'm smarter than you, but I'll answer your question. I believe the historical aspects are part of Masonic education. I believe the history fits in from the beginning of an EA's education.
I think there is a bit of confusion as to what Masonic education is, and what we are failing to teach our brethren.
History is part of that education, along with etiquette, rules, regulations, and Ritual. What is missing for a great part of the fraternity is the understanding and willingness of jurisdictions to teach the fundamentals of symbolism/ allegory and the importance of the 7 LA&S's.
I’ll throw in my two cents, keep in mind this is from the perspective a Mason of just 8 months.
I think Masonic education is a system of instruction that imparts the fundamental principles of Masonry to adherents.
So what are the fundamental principles?
Well we can try to answer that question by turning to various sources of information. We have our ritual to read, study and learn from; we have historical documents such as Anderson’s Constitutions and we have other histories that can translate the philosophies and cultural undercurrents that may have influenced certain people into a modern perspective.
I don’t believe Masonic education is some sort of individual path that ‘joiners’ get to pick based on their own personal life experience. If that were so, then why even have ritual, prescribed floor work, consistent and routine use of defined symbols. Granted individual interpretation may occur, but some symbols are clearly explained in our lectures, for instance; so I’m not convinced that open interpretation is universal.
How should it be imparted?
Hmm, well so far I’ve gotten the following responses:
Read the ritual, it’s all in there
Read the ritual and figure it out for yourself
Join the Scottish Rite, it’s the “university of freemasonry”
Read this or that book
Get good counsel from a brother (and don’t argue/question what he says)
It’s based on kabbalah – so read this
It’s not based on Kabbalah – so don’t read that
It’s based on hermetic and gnostic philosophies
It can be dizzying at times to try to sort this stuff out and get on a clearly defined path to progress.
I think Masonic education is a system of instruction that imparts the fundamental principles of Masonry to adherents.
So what are the fundamental principles?
Well we can try to answer that question by turning to various sources of information. We have our ritual to read, study and learn from; we have historical documents such as Anderson’s Constitutions and we have other histories that can translate the philosophies and cultural undercurrents that may have influenced certain people into a modern perspective.
I don’t believe Masonic education is some sort of individual path that ‘joiners’ get to pick based on their own personal life experience. If that were so, then why even have ritual, prescribed floor work, consistent and routine use of defined symbols. Granted individual interpretation may occur, but some symbols are clearly explained in our lectures, for instance; so I’m not convinced that open interpretation is universal.
How should it be imparted?
Hmm, well so far I’ve gotten the following responses:
Read the ritual, it’s all in there
Read the ritual and figure it out for yourself
Join the Scottish Rite, it’s the “university of freemasonry”
Read this or that book
Get good counsel from a brother (and don’t argue/question what he says)
It’s based on kabbalah – so read this
It’s not based on Kabbalah – so don’t read that
It’s based on hermetic and gnostic philosophies
It can be dizzying at times to try to sort this stuff out and get on a clearly defined path to progress.
Maybe the question needs to be clarified...Are we asking "what do you consider Masonic Education to be" from a teacher/mentor view or from the student view? Although they should be close to the same, in reality they are not. Not every student is looking for the same thing, nor do they neccasarily find the same thing.
G
Gary
Guest
I'm interested in both view points. That's why i posed the question the way I did.
CoachN
Builder Builder
I think we need an "Official Masonic Revolution" song. How about Monte Python's "Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam..." Wav Files - Sound Bites - Sound Clips at The Sound Archive
CoachN
Builder Builder
When provided education focuses upon sustaining, maintaining, propagating and providing background on the Freemason organization, it's Freemason Education. Etiquette, history, backgrounds, landmarks, lineages, biographies, law, ritual, tradition, choreography all fall into this category.
When provided education focuses upon Building and Improving Masons, it's Masonic Education. Applying the Working Tools, internal Work (Time management, V&S Divestment, Virtue investment, Circumscription, Subduing, Bounderies, Standards, Morality, Values), LAs&Ss Study and Symbolic Study all fall into this category.
"When provided education focuses upon Building and Improving Masons, it's Masonic Education. Applying the Working Tools, internal Work (Time management, V&S Divestment, Virtue investment, Circumscription, Subduing, Bounderies, Standards, Morality, Values), LAs&Ss Study and Symbolic Study all fall into this category.[/QUOTE]"
So that would be the focus and activity of our Masonic education. From what school of thought, philosophy or history do those tools, actions and study emanate?
So that would be the focus and activity of our Masonic education. From what school of thought, philosophy or history do those tools, actions and study emanate?
CoachN
Builder Builder
You will find them scattered throughout our history. You can start with the cradle of civilation and you will see it in all its glory.
Ok, given that comprehensive history am I correct to infer from your comment that Freemasonry, as a chosen option, is the current manifestation through which Masons build better buildings then?