MM Topic What do you consider Masonic Education to be?

CoachN

Builder Builder
Ok, given that comprehensive history am I correct to infer from your comment that Freemasonry, as a chosen option, is the current manifestation through which Masons build better buildings then?
It is not directly "Building Better Men" in its current USA manifestation.

In its current USA "mainstream" manifestation, it is only preserving the Code that points toward the Work that Builds better men. It is doing a very good job in that respect.

Unfortunately, most members do not recognize, understand and execute this Code.
 

PatrickWilliams

I could tell you ...
Unfortunately, most members do not recognize, understand and execute this Code.
Brother John ...

I find that I'm going to have to take a little bit of exception with you on this response (not terribly, mind you, but a little bit). Freemasonry is way too big a subject to be limited in this manner. Each of us has an understanding (in our hearts) of the Code and exercises it in his own way. On another thread, I wrote about Stanislavsky's 'dancers and socializers' (hereafter d&s); now, from my point of view, the d&s miss the point of our Order. But from their viewpoint, they are gaining just what they want from Freemasonry. Who is to say them nay?

I know that from my own experience, I have never failed to learn more about myself, my conception of Freemasonry, etc. from the d&s. And they appear to gain as much light as they wish from doing it their way. So, who is right and who is wrong? Who does and does not 'understand the code'?
 

FF Sparky

Member
Now if a Lodge doesn't do any Masonic Education except what you get out of the degree and ritual performances, then I don't think this can be considered education. One may have to learn on his on (I am one of those) and this would make it Masonic Study not Masonic Education. As my definition of 'education' would involve a teacher/mentor. But then again I'm learning here which would make this my Education and you are all my teachers.
 

Winter

I've been here before
So, whatever someone "feels" is right for them about Freemasonry is the correct understanding? That's just silly.

The Code is pretty straightforward with definite boundaries. It has nothing to do with what the individual Mason perceives the Code to be as it relates to him.

Personally, I find this whole attitude throughout Freemasonry that every Brother is on their own path and can get whatever they want to out of the teachings to be detrimental.
 

FF Sparky

Member
So, whatever someone "feels" is right for them about Freemasonry is the correct understanding? That's just silly.

The Code is pretty straightforward with definite boundaries. It has nothing to do with what the individual Mason perceives the Code to be as it relates to him.

Personally, I find this whole attitude throughout Freemasonry that every Brother is on their own path and can get whatever they want to out of the teachings to be detrimental.
I agree the Code, symbols and meaning are straight forward and the same. Its how one uses the information they gain from what they learn.
 

PatrickWilliams

I could tell you ...
Personally, I find this whole attitude throughout Freemasonry that every Brother is on their own path and can get whatever they want to out of the teachings to be detrimental.
Yes, I know you feel that way, Bro. Winter. Now you know how I feel, too!

BL&F
 

CoachN

Builder Builder
...So, who is right and who is wrong? Who does and does not 'understand the code'?
Okay Brother Patrick, I'll bite. Let's have some fun here.

The title of the thread is: What do you consider Masonic Education to be?

I've shared my thoughts on this and I believe that they (my thoughts) are backed by sufficient suitable research to claim justifiable validity within the definition(s) I put forth.

I've found that Freemasonry is not way too big as too claim that it cannot be limited in the manner I put forth. However, it is way too fuzzy in the minds of most who have not taken the time to perpend it sufficiently.

But, this direction is a red herring. I am not limiting Freemasonry. Indeed, I'm saying very little about "Freemasonry." I am focusing more on "Masonry" and taking the time to differentiate it from "Freemasonry.

And, in this effort I am merely describing Masonry's education, which is very different from that which is provided for within Freemasonry, as big as it might be seen. In this respect, what I claimed:

It (Freemasonry) is not directly "Building Better Men" in its current USA manifestation.

In its current USA "mainstream" manifestation, it is only preserving the Code that points toward the Work that Builds better men. It is doing a very good job in that respect.

Unfortunately, most members do not recognize, understand and execute this Code.

I firmly believe that most members do not recognize, understand and execute this Code. So, if each is doing it in his own way, I don't believe that it's done very effectively based on the evidence thus presented. I don't believe it's not a matter of judging things right or wrong. It's a matter of looking at the Code provided, looking at the intended results and asking oneself, "What true progression is actually made?"

I've seen the results of well executed Code. I've also seen haphazard undirected code execution. I know the difference.

As I said before, there is a difference between "Freemason Education" and "Masonic Education." I don't think I'm the only one who sees it this way. For those who don't, they are not playin' in the same ballpark so the point is truly moot.

F&S,

Coach N
 

PatrickWilliams

I could tell you ...
Okay Brother Patrick, I'll bite. Let's have some fun here.
Oooh, fun! I like to have fun!!! ;)

The title of the thread is: What do you consider Masonic Education to be?
Yes, and I should have paid closer attention to the thread.

I've shared my thoughts on this and I believe that they (my thoughts) are backed by sufficient suitable research to claim justifiable validity within the definition(s) I put forth.
Granted.

I've found that Freemasonry is not way too big as too claim that it cannot be limited in the manner I put forth. However, it is way too fuzzy in the minds of most who have not taken the time to perpend it sufficiently.
Ah, yes. Fuzzy Masonry.

But, this direction is a red herring. I am not limiting Freemasonry. Indeed, I'm saying very little about "Freemasonry." I am focusing more on "Masonry" and taking the time to differentiate it from "Freemasonry.
Okay, I'll accept that.

And, in this effort I am merely describing Masonry's education, which is very different from that which is provided for within Freemasonry, as big as it might be seen. In this respect, what I claimed:

It (Freemasonry) is not directly "Building Better Men" in its current USA manifestation.

In its current USA "mainstream" manifestation, it is only preserving the Code that points toward the Work that Builds better men. It is doing a very good job in that respect.

Unfortunately, most members do not recognize, understand and execute this Code.
Okay, I think I grok.

I firmly believe that most members do not recognize, understand and execute this Code. So, if each is doing it in his own way, I don't believe that it's done very effectively based on the evidence thus presented. I don't believe it's not a matter of judging things right or wrong. It's a matter of looking at the Code provided, looking at the intended results and asking oneself, "What true progression is actually made?"

I've seen the results of well executed Code. I've also seen haphazard undirected code execution. I know the difference.

As I said before, there is a difference between "Freemason Education" and "Masonic Education." I don't think I'm the only one who sees it this way. For those who don't, they are not playin' in the same ballpark so the point is truly moot.

F&S,

Coach N
Agreed.
 

CoachN

Builder Builder
Darn! I thought you and I were going to have a lot more fun :(

Thanks for the quick toss. We sure need to get a lively thread going! ;)
 

PatrickWilliams

I could tell you ...
So, at any rate, because I missed the title of this thread and attempted to bring us into another country...

I consider Masonic education to be anything that helps me perpend my ashlar.
 

FF Sparky

Member
Personally, I think I can say I have my freestone that was recently inspected and chipped away for my rough ashlar(being accepted among Brothers). Now I'm studying and learning to chip away at my rough ashlar to make my perfect ashlar. I have been slowly making sense of the literal meanings and then learning the esoteric meaning which is the blueprint for the final stones fitment to the the temple.
 

PatrickWilliams

I could tell you ...
Personally, I think I can say I have my freestone that was recently inspected and chipped away for my rough ashlar(being accepted among Brothers). Now I'm studying and learning to chip away at my rough ashlar to make my perfect ashlar. I have been slowly making sense of the literal meanings and then learning the esoteric meaning which is the blueprint for the final stones fitment to the the temple.
Lemme know when you have any fitted. Every time I get close, I find some spots that need work.
 

Duncan1574

Lodge Chaplain & arms dealer
Personally, I think I can say I have my freestone that was recently inspected and chipped away for my rough ashlar(being accepted among Brothers). Now I'm studying and learning to chip away at my rough ashlar to make my perfect ashlar. I have been slowly making sense of the literal meanings and then learning the esoteric meaning which is the blueprint for the final stones fitment to the the temple.
But then the prefect ashlar is not totally smooth, is it.
 
I think there will always be a flaw somewhere, hopefully noone will stare long enough to point it out.
Those that stand and point out flaws on anothers stone only do so because they have not done work on theirs......

NOW.... thats not to say a Brother cant help you with your work...or offer some wise counsel in how to chip away at the rough spots
 

BukeyeJackson

ViMH Advisory Board
But for the ashlar to be perfect for building doesn't mean flawless. We're not talking diamonds and those are strictly material.
 
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