What to do

[jaya]

I think you ment to post http://ggmasoniccongress.org instead because the link you posted does not work. That is a clandestine group and is not recognized by regular lodges. I find it very disterbing that they are illegally using a video that was produced by the GL of MA on their site (http://ggmasoniccongress.org/ENTRANCE.html). This group is NOT recognized by the GL of MA for sure.

The General Grand Masonic Congress was actually started by John G Jones. He was actually expelled from the MWPHGL of IL for gross unmasonic conduct in 1903. Read http://www.thephylaxis.org/bogus/johnjones.php for a better understanding who founded that organization. Also check out http://bluelitepha.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/we-are-not-all-brothers.pdf for another perspective about clandestine lodges.

 

[TH2012]

What if you were being established of your Grand Lodge, what would you, to be considered as?

 

[jaya]

That depends on your Grand Lodge. If you are establishing a lodge under an existing reconized grand lodge, you are considered whatever your GL is. You would be under dispensation untill completely approved by your GL.

Starting a new GL, most likely you would be considered clandestine. There is a thing called teretorial jurisdiction where only 1 recognized can be in any jurisdiction unless there is agreement between the recognized GL and the new body. There are established rules for creating a Grand Lodges in areas that do not currently have one. Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_Masonic_jurisdictions

 

[Windrider]

There are a lot of people who for one reason or another don't agree with the rules of regular, mainstream Masonry. Many of these people make the mistake of joining a lodge and then being expelled. A few of these decide that they can do a better job than we can and form their own lodge to lend an air of legitimacy, they invent a "grand lodge" too. Some of these are scams to extract money. Others start off as a sort of protest against mainstream Masonry. None of this matters to a mainstream or Prince Hall Mason, all these outside groups are not part of real Masonry, they are "clandestine" in our terms.

Any member of a clandestine lodge is not considered a Mason by those of us who are members of legitimate lodges. Because this is really not the individual's fault, when he does figure out what he has gotten involved with we have a solution. In many cases, the Grand Lodge of your state can make it all go away and welcome you to real Masonry through a process called "Healing". The other alternative is simply to leave the clandestine lodge and petition a regular lodge.

 

[bro hodges stewart]

that is what i plan on doing but its just not me its my whole body. I have been talking to our heads and we are trying to get rite with the hep of you all. there are four lodges that i am talking about. Who would we talk to as a whole to be a legitimate lodge or body. WE are very upset on this matter, becasuse one thing that we live and work by is unity.(psalms 133) We are wanting to take this matter how ever far as we have to go. We love it, blead for it, and will die standing on it

 

[bro hodges stewart]

talking about 40 to 50 brothers

 

[jaya]

You said that you knew MW Cleveland K. Wilson who is the Grand Master of the MWPHGL of AK. That would be where I would start the discussion. They are located at 2906 East Harding Avenue in Pine Bluff. Their phone number is (870)534-5467. There should be plenty of people there that are willing to help you.

 

[TH2012]

Thank you Brother Jaya, for sharing. See the reason why I asked is because Claudesine, when mentioned is in different interpretations, now I understand the meaning of what is secretly being opened without consent, but this puts down the legitimate bodies, that is expanding.This is a sticky situation between jurisdictions and Governing bodies.

S&F

 

[jaya]

Existing jurisdictions can not legitmantly expand into another jurisdictions just because they want to expand. There must be agreement from the jurisdiction that was there first.

 

[Windrider]

Thank you Brother Jaya, for sharing. See the reason why I asked is because Claudesine, when mentioned is in different interpretations, now I understand the meaning of what is secretly being opened without consent, but this puts down the legitimate bodies, that is expanding.This is a sticky situation between jurisdictions and Governing bodies.

S&F

I believe you meant to say, clandestine not claudesine. The word certainly has several definitions but when used in a Masonic context, there is only one meaning. If I understand you correctly, your entire lodge is now upset about being duped into joining a clandestine lodge and would now like to become part of Regular Masonry. Is that correct?

If so, the only path open to you and your friends is through the mainstream or Prince Hall grand lodges. There is certainly precedent for an individual to be "healed" and renounce their membership in the clandestine lodge while joining a Regular Lodge. Moving a group that large might be a challenge, though. In any case, I suspect you would be asked to join existing lodges rather than forming a new lodge.

 

[jaya]

There are cases where the entire lodge has been moved from a clandestine lodge to a regular lodge. It is not unheard of.

 

[Winter]

I can tell you with pretty absolute certainty that you will not be able to make your Clandestine Lodge a Regular one. The 40-50 individuals you mention will all need to demit or remove themselves from the Clandestine organization and then be healed by the Regular Grand Lodge in their area. They will have to each make their case individually most likely.

TH2012, the term Clandestine is pretty specific in this context as a body formed without the consent of a Regular Grand Lodge. Regular Grand Lodges cannot, by their very definition, be considered Clandestine should they legitimately create a Lodge in a new area.

 

[jaya]

There was a clandestine lodge in SC if I remember right, that the entire lodge demitted, renounced the clandestine GL, reformed under the regular pha GL as a new lodge. As I said, very rare but it has been done.

As for TH2012 and his question, if a regular lodge creates a new lodge in their jurisdiction, it is regular. Where it gets fuzzy is when the same GL goes into another country or state where a regular GL already exist and charters lodges. Without permission from the host GL, they most likely be considered clandestine and be reason for possible derecognition from the host GL.

 

[jaya]

I remembered right in that it was in SC. This letter was posted on another forum.

9/28 AL 6011　To the Grand Master, Wardens and Brethren of the State of South Carolina,INTERNATIONAL FREE and ACCEPTED MODERN MASONS INC., AND ORDER OF THE EASTERN STAR.It brings me great to inform you that UNANIMOUSLY The Lodge formally known as Pride of Columbia No. 68, International Free and Accepted Modern Free Masons, Inc. has decided to turn its Masonic life in another direction. We hereby renounce our affiliation with INTERNATIONAL MASONS and have HEALED over and under the jurisdiction of the MW PRINCE HALL GRAND LODGE of the State of South Carolina. This decision was not made in haste nor was it an easy decision but as men we must obey our obligations and stand TRUE as REGULARMASONS. I will not go into the details of why at this particular point we joined the prince hall family. We are enclosing all documentation belonging to our former jurisdiction to include minutes of last grand session, treasurer reports and any other documents we may feel would be a benefit to you and your organization. We hope that this does not cause any major inconvenience to you or the King Solomon Grand Lodge. We humbly request that all members of the Lodge be IMMEDIATELY dropped from the rolls of INTERNATIONAL MASONS INC., This will ensure that there is no misunderstanding of our renunciation of allegiance to the King Solomon Grand Lodge or International Masonry.

 

[TH2012]

See, this is MWPH, backing. My mentor and I are in negotiations, following proper procedures. My mentor has already accomplished growth in other countries, that are doing wonderful and well recognised. My mentor is very familiar with expansion internationally and has Brothers, that are well in favour and is excited of growth into Australia, not taking anything from Australia which is well endowed. MWPH is recognised here and this is why Brother, Jaya I'am so excited.

 

[Windrider]

See, this is MWPH, backing. My mentor and I are in negotiations, following proper procedures. My mentor has already accomplished growth in other countries, that are doing wonderful and well recognised. My mentor is very familiar with expansion internationally and has Brothers, that are well in favour and is excited of growth into Australia, not taking anything from Australia which is well endowed. MWPH is recognised here and this is why Brother, Jaya I'am so excited.

I may be a bit fuzzy after celebrating the New Year, but I am finding this post almost undecipherable. Can you please rephrase this? Your words are important and I would like to understand what you are saying but your grammar, punctuation, spelling and improper use of pronouns do not convey anything intelligible.

 

[bro hodges stewart]

You said that you knew MW Cleveland K. Wilson who is the Grand Master of the MWPHGL of AK. That would be where I would start the discussion. They are located at 2906 East Harding Avenue in Pine Bluff. Their phone number is (870)534-5467. There should be plenty of people there that are willing to help you.

yes i will give them a call, but are there any in little rock as well. Im talking about a Grand Lodge in little rock? i cant find it. i have brothers up there as well. or were is the other GL in arkansas located. we want to talk to them both. if i read right it is 2 Grand Lodges in Arkansas

 

[jaya]

The other GL is in little rock.

Grand Lodge of Arkansas F&AM
Albert Pike Memorial Temple
700 Scott Street
Little Rock AR 72201
(phone) 501-374-6408

It is the mainstream GL there.

 

[bro hodges stewart]

thank you bro jaya im on it! will keep you posted

 

[TH2012]

My mentor has expanded TMWPH lodges internationally and by expanding into another Country, is very exciting. Please excuse me, if I came across wrong in au way?