PHA and your GL

[Ashlar2006]

Thanks, Bro. Patrick! I need all the encouragement I can get. I just get SO worn down.

As an aside, in AF&AM-NC the SD is appointed, the JW is elected.
In 1998 I was SD and spoke up in an area meeting about the possibility of Recognizing our PH Brothers, encouraging it.
Come December (elections), I was not elected to JW. [I was able to get back into line later.]
I've got by scar, and I wear it proudly.

I just want to be a Mason!

S&F

I get worn down also . But not by those who ARE racist , because I truly know very , very few of them . BUT I am worn out by those who like to make accusations , blanket statements , point fingers and call us names here in the South . Every time this subject comes up on a forum , people come out of the wood work to call us ALL racists and make it look as if it is all one sided affair . I used to be the loudest in my lodge on this subject but Every time I read these statements , I quit caring just a little bit more . It will soon be to the point that I will give up on this mutual recognition thing altogether . I hate to say that , but I can only get beat over the head with this so many times and I am get very , very , VERY tired of it .

 

[Casey]

Ohio certainly does recognize PH, and they put on a heck of a show.

Their inspections are a treat to watch- they're done with no warning. The DDGM shows up one day, and tells them in which Degree they will work, and that he is their exemplar. The inspection I was lucky enough to see in Fellowcraft was amazing, if for nothing else than the brief panic as they got together the Degree Team.

 

[removed12612]

Brother Ashlar, just remember, those that make blanket statements that it is a race issue or that all of one group are racist are no better themselves than the ones that are racists. This particular issue has been going on for decades but no one ever casts blame towards the PHA side when they do not want to recognize the MS Lodges nor do they want us to recognize them....... I do not see why someone from another state or under a different GL than yours or mine has the right to pass judgement on another GL or state....I dont know of any GL that allows its members to visit a PHA Lodge outside of its area covered by the GL...example...GL of IN only allows us to visit/recognize PHA in the state of Indiana ( this is the way I understand it...I know we have some Hoosier Brothers that may know the rules better than I)....we can not go to another state and visit a PHA Lodge....whats the difference....??? Are we racists towards PHA Brothers that are not from Indiana? The answer to that is NO.... so why is race always the issue when it comes to non-recognition??? Maybe it is a two way street and neither want it....

 

[removed12612]

Brother Casey.... I have heard that too....but can you visit any PHA Lodge outside of Ohio???...

 

[Ashlar2006]

I love all these lists everyone posts naming all the "mainstream" Grand Lodges who do not recognize their PHA counterparts . Where is the list of all the PHA Grand Lodges who do not recognize "Mainstream" ? What's fair is fair . If we are going to name names , then let's name them all .

I mean , come on , the MWPHAGL of KY recognized us , what is stopping the other PHA Grand Lodges in the South from recognizing the "Mainstream" ? I have said it before and I will say it again , recognition is a two way street .

 

[Casey]

Brother Casey.... I have heard that too....but can you visit any PHA Lodge outside of Ohio???...

I have not tried, however it shouldn't be a problem. Heck, next time I'm in Detroit I'll stop by the PHA Grand Lodge of Michigan and ask.

 

[removed12612]

If it is allowed, that is great...I know alot of states only allow visitation within the state.

 

[Bob Franks]

If it is allowed, that is great...I know alot of states only allow visitation within the state.

After we voted to Recognize, I never asked if I could visit out of state.
When I visited Indiana last year, I called the GL and asked about any Degree work, and found out the [white] GM was going to a MM Degree at an Indianapolis PHA lodge. I figured if it was good for him, it was good for me!

S&F

 

[removed12612]

To the best of my knowledge, an IN mason can not visit outside of Indiana. There was a guy that went PHA in the military and when he came back home to IN, he had to get accepted into a PHA lodge here in IN then demit to the lodge he wanted to go to because IN didnt recognize the PHA lodge he was from....it was a legit PHA lodge...IN only has recognition/visitation within the state....thats the way it was explained to me. I am under the understanding that masonic charges can be brought against me if I was to visit a PHA lodge outside of Indiana

 

[Duncan1574]

Tell me how to respond 'in the most tender manner' when a Brother says, "I ain't going to stand in lodge with no N_____r!"
I want to be firm, steadfast, and also brotherly.

They say you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Sometime in their life, each of these Brothers wanted to better themselves with Masonry. I want to foster that, not tell them their views are unmasonic and demand that they demit.
I want to better their Masonry.

S&F

I suppose you tried reflecting on the EA exam and asking them how the color of a person's skin has an influence over their character? Or how does their racial profiling square up against any of the obligations that they promised and sworn to? (The EA degree is the only one I know, but I would hope that FC & MM contain further light on the subject of equality).

I grow up with bigoted parents, I worked hard not to be that way myself and worked harder for my children to be better than I was/am. It worked, but Mom and Dad both passed on without ever stopping the use of the N-word.

 

[publius]

From what I can tell in this thread (which is my sole source of knowledge on the subject), PHA is an irregular organization. As far as I know, there is nothing that prohibits a black, or any other minority, from joining a mainstream, recognized, regular Lodge. Therefore I have come to the conclusion that the only thing prompting the acceptance of PHA in some States is the fear of being called racist. ????????

 

[Winter]

Read all the posts. It depends what jurisdiction you are in as to whether they are considered regular. While some may see it as a race issue, it is far more complicated than that and you can't just make a blanket statement that they are irregular since that is clearly not the case.

The UGLE says they're regular and my jurisdiction, and many others, say they are regular. And I would not make a blanket statement that any jurisdiction that does not accept PHA is racist.

And, if I remember correctly, the Grand Lodge of Texas (looks like where you are) has recognized the PHA of Texas as regular. With the caveat that no Masonic communication can take place.

I guess it's a start. ???

 

[PatrickWilliams]

Brother Casey.... I have heard that too....but can you visit any PHA Lodge outside of Ohio???...

Well, it depends. Basically, when you are in a foreign jurisdiction (meaning not your home jurisdiction) you, as a true and loyal Brother Mason generally are seen to fall under the rules of that foreign jurisdiction. So, if they can visit a PHA lodge, so can you (or just the opposite if you are a PHA Mason).

Now, this being said, there have been some jurisdictions that have put restraints on their constituents over this issue saying that ANY Mason who falls under their jurisdiction and visits a PHA Lodge (or a Mainstream one) outside of their home jurisdiction can be expelled.

So the answer depends. What does your home jurisdiction say?

 

[PatrickWilliams]

And, if I remember correctly, the Grand Lodge of Texas (looks like where you are) has recognized the PHA of Texas as regular. With the caveat that no Masonic communication can take place.

I guess it's a start. ???

Yep, it's a start. In fact, Texas said they did not grant visitation because PHA did not request it. PHA, apparently, requested recognition only. Whatcha gonna do?

 

[removed12612]

Patrick....dont hold me too it because I am not 100% sure but I do believe that we (in Indiana) only have visitation/recognition with in the state of Indiana and that is it. I have sent a message to another Brother Hoosier seeking better clarification but he has not got back with me yet.

 

[PatrickWilliams]

Patrick....dont hold me too it because I am not 100% sure but I do believe that we (in Indiana) only have visitation/recognition with in the state of Indiana and that is it. I have sent a message to another Brother Hoosier seeking better clarification but he has not got back with me yet.

Oh, yes, that's quite common. You may only have visitation with those Lodges that are recognized by your GL, while you are under their jurisdiction. So far as I know, very few MSGLs extend PHA visitation to all PHAs recognized by the PHA system. My point is that, when you are in, let's say, New York, you (as an upright Mason) are expected to live by the rules of the GL of NY. Therefore, unless otherwise prohibited by your home GL, you should be able to visit ANY lodge recognized as regular by the GL of NY. See? It's complicated, I know. You not only have to be familiar with the Code of your jurisdiction, but with the codes of others.

If my memory serves, the Mainstream GL of Wisconsin has extended their recognition of PHA to all PHA lodges and jurisdictions recognized by MWGL-PHA of Wisconsin. So, that means that if a PHA Brother from Florida was visiting in WI, and his GL is recognized by PHA-WI, then he could visit my Lodge (assuming, of course, that no contrary rule exists in PHA Florida). However, the reverse would not be true. Should I visit Florida, I am under the constraints of the GL of Florida, which do not allow visitation with PHA. Complicated? You bet!

 

[PatrickWilliams]

So, now, just for fun (and because I LOVE scrambling people's minds), let's pretend:

Brother AB Dixie, who is an MS Mason in Alabama, is visiting his sister in Racine, WI (where I live) and he passes the tests to visit my Lodge (in Wisconsin, the only test is that you have a valid and current dues card from a Lodge that is recognized by the MWGL-WI). We will also pretend that MWGL-AL says that its members may NOT sit in Lodge with a PHA Mason no matter where they are and that Bro Dixie is aware of this restriction.

Bro Dixie comes to visit my Lodge (all cool so far), but it's also the night that our local PHA Lodge is scheduled for a visitation. We'll also pretend that the PHA group is running a little late and miss opening (I know - that wouldn't really happen. PHA is very strict about that sort of thing). When the PHA delegation finally arrives and is announced by the JD, Bro Dixie stands up and objects. He cannot sit in Lodge with PHA Masons because of the specific strictures of the MWGL-AL (assuming, of course, that AL actually HAS a rule like that ... some jurisdictions do).

Now my WM has a conundrum. He either must eject Bro. Dixie or he must refuse entry to the PHA-WI delegation. Very ticklish situation, no? Now let's pretend that YOU are Master of my Lodge. Which choice would you make?

 

[removed12612]

I say the Brother Dixie respectfully excuses himself from the Lodge as to not violate any rules. He is visiting a Lodge that allows the PH brothers so the entire Lodge shouldnt change to accomdate the one Brother.

The WM should walk out with the one visiting Brother and speak with him as a courtesy and explain the situation that he can not ask welcomed Brothern to not come in just because of the rules of another GL.

 

[PatrickWilliams]

I say the Brother Dixie respectfully excuses himself from the Lodge as to not violate any rules. He is visiting a Lodge that allows the PH brothers so the entire Lodge shouldnt change to accomdate the one Brother.

The WM should walk out with the one visiting Brother and speak with him as a courtesy and explain the situation that he can not ask welcomed Brothern to not come in just because of the rules of another GL.

In a perfect world, I would certainly and wholeheartedly agree with you. However, here is the rub: in the Wisconsin Code (and the Alaska Code and the Texas Code - these three I can speak for) a Mason has the right to object to the inclusion of anyone at all. There are variations on how this must be handled, but the bottom line is this: a Master Mason who has been admitted to a Lodge (even as a visitor) has the right to object to the inclusion of anyone at all.

So, inasmuch as Brother Dixie (in our admittedly flawed example) has the right to object and let's also say that he does object, what would you do? To bar the entry of the planned visitors would be wrong (and horrible!) for many, many reasons. But to deny an individual Brother his rights???

 

[removed12612]

Well.....that would or could present a cluster...... it never dawned on me that the visiting Brother had the right to object even though it is not his Lodge.