Should Masons have firearms?

goomba

Active Member
The first time I showed up at lodge in uniform the Jr. Deacon told me I couldn't come in with my gun own. The lodge was already tyled. So I told him I wouldn't come back to lodge while I was on duty. The WM asked what was going on and set to let me in as I was. I will say this plainly, if I was not allowed to carry my weapon in the lodge (on or off duty) I would not return to the lodge. To me this issue is that important.
I re-read this and want to clarify a portion of it. The only lodge I was referring to about not returning the lodge would be the one Ware Lodge. I would just transfer to another lodge outside of the city I work in and this would not be an issue for me. Sorry if this caused and confusion. I can be a bit blunt and rigid.
 
H

Hank

Guest
In the U.S, we have something called the second amendment.

Legislation was also presented at our GL to prohibit firearms in the Lodge. It was overwhelmingly defeated. We don't carry in our Lodges as a common practice, but even if we did it's no ones business. We check our guns at the door like they did in the old west... ;)

Being a Mason does not exempt me from my constitutional right to bear arms.

Molōn labe!
Its a pity more Countries don't have a second amendment!
 

FamilyMan

Fidelis ad Mortem
Brother Winter, I know of at least one police department that has a General Order that requires it's officers to carry their weapon at all times, on or off duty. They also require that you keep your ID and badge on your person at all times too. I am just putting that out there.
 

Ashlar2006

Masonic Mafia
Brother Winter, I know of at least one police department that has a General Order that requires it's officers to carry their weapon at all times, on or off duty. They also require that you keep your ID and badge on your person at all times too. I am just putting that out there.
I have thought about this rule . The city cops in my town carry when off duty , even when they are out drinking . Would this rule be in affect if the officers were drunk in a bar (and this happens quit a bit here) ? Cop or not , I do not want to be around someone who is intoxicated and armed .
 

FamilyMan

Fidelis ad Mortem
Cop or not , I do not want to be around someone who is intoxicated and armed .
Neither do I! In Ohio, that would be a violation of ORC 2923.15, cop or not. In Mass., that would be a violation of MGL Ch.269, §10H, cop or not. The officer should show enough restraint and discretion, and just plain ole' common sense to not drink while carrying IMO. FYI, the last department I worked at had a city ordnance that forbid us from patronizing any drinking establishment in city limits, on or off duty.
 

Ashlar2006

Masonic Mafia
Neither do I! In Ohio, that would be a violation of ORC 2923.15, cop or not. In Mass., that would be a violation of MGL Ch.269, §10H, cop or not. The officer should show enough restraint and discretion, and just plain ole' common sense to not drink while carrying IMO. FYI, the last department I worked at had a city ordnance that forbid us from patronizing any drinking establishment in city limits, on or off duty.
I was out just a couple of weeks ago at a restaurant/bar , and there were some off duty cops in there drinking/drunk . A couple of them I noticed were armed and to top it off , they walked outside , got behind the wheel of their cars and drove off . It is no surprise that some "civilians" have attitudes when it comes to the hypocrisy of it all .

Do not take it that I am anti-police , I just feel that if they are armed and/or they are going to drive , then they should show some restraint when it comes to alcohol (or speeding , etc; etc; ) and following the same traffic laws we do when off duty .
 

goomba

Active Member
Brother Ashlar it is against my department policy to be in a public area and consume enough alcohol to not be able to drive off duty. In laymen's terms getting drunk is for home.

Or in my case getting drunk is for years past. I have better things to do now.
 

Ashlar2006

Masonic Mafia
Brother Ashlar it is against my department policy to be in a public area and consume enough alcohol to not be able to drive off duty. In laymen's terms getting drunk is for home.

Or in my case getting drunk is for years past. I have better things to do now.
I am sure it is , in other places. But stick a F.O.P. plate on their cars in my area and they and their families drive how ever fast or intoxicated as they want all the time armed and are left alone . It is not like we , the "civilians" do not see this in our town as it is small and we know who is who . Sorry , just leaves a bad taste in our mouths .
 

goomba

Active Member
I am sorry for the bad taste. Everyone officer I have ever worked with knows if I catch the DUI/DWI they come with me with shiny bracelets. I hate FOP stickers!
 

Bob Franks

Past District Deputy Grand Lecturer
[snip] I hate FOP stickers!
How about the ones I've been seeing for the last few years: Black square, maybe 4" across, with a thick blue stripe horizontally?
Being a retired public servant, I feel that if you are living off the taxpayers' dime, you should hold yourself to a higher standard. A badge or even turn-out gear, should not give you a free pass to act like an idiot.

S&F
 

FamilyMan

Fidelis ad Mortem
FOP stickers and, as Bob mentioned, the Thin Blue Line Stickers, hold no weight with me. I will execute a TS on anyone regardless of an FOB/TBL sticker, and for the record, I would stop vehicles with S&C plates/decals too. My decision on whether or not to issue a traffic citation has to do with the severity of the offense, the totality of the encounter with the driver, and not whatever they have on the back of their car. Nothing frustrates me more than people who think they are ENTITLED to a break.

"Hey, I'm sorry. I'm on the job in Some City, I should have been more careful." is one way to tell me you're a cop (and you better had an ID to back it up, because fake cops go straight to jail), but that doesn't mean you're getting a break. You go 48 in a school zone, and you're getting a ticket, period, cop or no cop. Basically, as a police officer, you have discretion in issuing the traffic citation. If I wouldn't consider giving a civilian a verbal/written warning for the same offense, a brother cop isn't going to get the consideration either. There is no such thing as a free pass in my book. I've been on stops where they are sticking a badge in my face before I even get to open my mouth. <shakes head>.
 

Bob Franks

Past District Deputy Grand Lecturer
[snip] I've been on stops where they are sticking a badge in my face before I even get to open my mouth. <shakes head>.
That reminds me of the scene in "Electroglide in Blue," when the Arizona MC officer, played by Robert Blake, stops a speeding convertible sports car and the driver flips open his wallet to show the ID of a Los Angeles detective.

Blake's character says, "Would you remove it from the plastic, sir?"

S&F
 

Ashlar2006

Masonic Mafia
FOP stickers and, as Bob mentioned, the Thin Blue Line Stickers, hold no weight with me. I will execute a TS on anyone regardless of an FOB/TBL sticker, and for the record, I would stop vehicles with S&C plates/decals too. My decision on whether or not to issue a traffic citation has to do with the severity of the offense, the totality of the encounter with the driver, and not whatever they have on the back of their car. Nothing frustrates me more than people who think they are ENTITLED to a break.

"Hey, I'm sorry. I'm on the job in Some City, I should have been more careful." is one way to tell me you're a cop (and you better had an ID to back it up, because fake cops go straight to jail), but that doesn't mean you're getting a break. You go 48 in a school zone, and you're getting a ticket, period, cop or no cop. Basically, as a police officer, you have discretion in issuing the traffic citation. If I wouldn't consider giving a civilian a verbal/written warning for the same offense, a brother cop isn't going to get the consideration either. There is no such thing as a free pass in my book. I've been on stops where they are sticking a badge in my face before I even get to open my mouth. <shakes head>.

Good to know .

I have a couple of lodge brothers who are police officers and they say pulling other cops over in their POVs' are their biggest headaches .
 

Gary2112

Troll Stomper
Staff member
How about the ones I've been seeing for the last few years: Black square, maybe 4" across, with a thick blue stripe horizontally?
Being a retired public servant, I feel that if you are living off the taxpayers' dime, you should hold yourself to a higher standard. A badge or even turn-out gear, should not give you a free pass to act like an idiot.

S&F
Brother,

That black square "flag like"sticker you see with the blue line running through the middle signifies the remembrance of a fallen officer. It has nothing to do with the FOP. We have one in the FD that is a red stripe.

Fraternally,

Gary
 

Winter

I've been here before
Brother,
That black square "flag like"sticker you see with the blue line running through the middle signifies the remembrance of a fallen officer. It has nothing to do with the FOP. We have one in the FD that is a red stripe.
Fraternally,
Gary
The black square or rectangle with the blue stripe represents the "Thin blue line." It's a solidarity thing. At least everywhere I have been. Most guys on the job, myself included when I was, think it is stupid to mark your vehicle in any way that identifies it as being driven by a LEO. Retired guys I can understand.
 

Nathan Lunsford

SeeksEnlightenment
The black square or rectangle with the blue stripe represents the "Thin blue line." It's a solidarity thing. At least everywhere I have been. Most guys on the job, myself included when I was, think it is stupid to mark your vehicle in any way that identifies it as being driven by a LEO. Retired guys I can understand.
This may be off a little, but I agree with the comment relating to identifying yourself as a LEO if you are actively on rolls. I was Military Police in the Army and learned quickly not to mark my personal vehicle with distinguishing markings that would let "Joe" know who I was. It's a thing that not only protects you, it protects your family from "disgruntled employees".
 

Winter

I've been here before

Gary2112

Troll Stomper
Staff member
Just to further the discussion I would like to put this forward.

Israel, a country that boasts some of the greatest personal freedoms along with a strong society has some of the strictest gun laws despite being a fully militarized society. How does this track with concepts that equate the need for a Second Amendment and the citizen versus subject debate?

http://www.jta.org/news/article/2012/07/24/3101546/despite-militarized-society-israels-strict-gun-laws-keep-civilian-violence-down
With the demographics/dynamics in play, I don't think there is an even comparison. If Israel were to have a tyrannical government, being that most of it's citizen's are militarized, How would the citizen's who opposed the regime resist? That is the point of our second amendment. Not to have loonies running around with all of the weapons and ammo they can carry. Although, I would be considered a loon by some. I responsibly exercise my right to keep and bear arms (including assault rifles), and I pity the fool who tries to come take them from me.

Personally, one pistol and 50 rounds of ammo per year is ludicrous. That's not even enough ammo to practice at the range to become proficient in shooting.
 
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