Knight's of Columbus vs. Freemasonry

Gary2112

Gary2112

Troll Stomper
Staff member
Just for discussion:

What are the differences?
  • If the Roman Catholic church is supposedly against Freemasonry, why did they create something of a clone?
  • Does the KOC recognize Freemasonry? And if so, do they work together in public charitable events?
  • Are there Brothers who are members of both organizations?
 
Ashlar2006

Ashlar2006

Masonic Mafia
Back when my town still had a KoC , they worked on joint charitable ventures with my second lodge . We got along wonderfully .
 
Bob Franks

Bob Franks

Past District Deputy Grand Lecturer
My boss is a KoC, though not active since his initiation. [Sounds like they have the same problem we have.]
He asks me if we are solving all the world's problems at Wednesday morning Masonic Breakfast. I tell him, "Don't you know we're MAKING all the world's problems?!"
He really should be getting this from his priest!

:D
 
Winter

Winter

I've been here before
It all depends on who you ask, I think. Does that person want better relations with the Catholic Church or does that person despise the Catholic church. It has been my experience that when Masons and KoC are brought up you invariably get one or the other! LoL

Don't quote me on this, but I was told a long time ago that the KoC were created as an answer for young Catholic men to join instead of Freemasonry and the plethora of others at the time. In 1888 there were many fraternal orders to choose from and I would not put it past someone in a position to make a difference in the Church to see the benefits of having a Catholic only fraternity instead of them running off and having fun with Protestants and heathens! LoL Heck, If I was Catholic I'd be a KoC I am sure.
 
2SONDAD

2SONDAD

Husband, father, son, Mason.
Winter said:
It all depends on who you ask, I think. Does that person want better relations with the Catholic Church or does that person despise the Catholic church. It has been my experience that when Masons and KoC are brought up you invariably get one or the other! LoL

Don't quote me on this, but I was told a long time ago that the KoC were created as an answer for young Catholic men to join instead of Freemasonry and the plethora of others at the time. In 1888 there were many fraternal orders to choose from and I would not put it past someone in a position to make a difference in the Church to see the benefits of having a Catholic only fraternity instead of them running off and having fun with Protestants and heathens! LoL Heck, If I was Catholic I'd be a KoC I am sure.
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This is what I have heard as well.
 
Gary2112

Gary2112

Troll Stomper
Staff member
Winter said:
It all depends on who you ask, I think. Does that person want better relations with the Catholic Church or does that person despise the Catholic church. It has been my experience that when Masons and KoC are brought up you invariably get one or the other! LoL

Don't quote me on this, but I was told a long time ago that the KoC were created as an answer for young Catholic men to join instead of Freemasonry and the plethora of others at the time. In 1888 there were many fraternal orders to choose from and I would not put it past someone in a position to make a difference in the Church to see the benefits of having a Catholic only fraternity instead of them running off and having fun with Protestants and heathens! LoL Heck, If I was Catholic I'd be a KoC I am sure.
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I heard the same. I find it interesting how the KOC uses similar garb to the KT in the YR.

Id be interested in hearing more about the similarities and differences.
 
Ashlar2006

Ashlar2006

Masonic Mafia
Let me check with my neighbor , he is Catholic , a Freemason and former member of the KoC . He may still have their ritual book . I may wheel and deal with him and if I can get it , I will mail it to you (after I read it of course) if he still has it of course .
 
Gary2112

Gary2112

Troll Stomper
Staff member
Ashlar2006 said:
Let me check with my neighbor , he is Catholic , a Freemason and former member of the KoC . He may still have their ritual book . I may wheel and deal with him and if I can get it , I will mail it to you (after I read it of course) if he still has it of course .
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Sounds like a plan!
 
O

otherstar

New Member
First, I'm a KofC and a Mason.

Second, the KofC is a Fraternal Insurance Society and has a AAA Best rating for it's life insurance products. In that way, it is VERY different from Masonry. It was founded in 1882 so that Catholic men would have a way to meet together (as many fraternal organizations were springing up at the same time). The article linked previously (post #13 got that much right). The rituals linked are nothing like the KofC ceremonials of today (sorry to burst anyone's bubble), and they have changed quite a bit since I joined the order in 1988, and even more from when my late father joined in the 1960's. The KofC ceremonials are changed regularly, unlike Masonic ritual.

Third, good luck getting a copy of the ceremonial books. Ceremonial books are sent to each Council by Supreme and have serial numbers so if any goes missing, the Council gets charged a fee for losing them, and another fee to replace them. Ceremonials are not emphasized very much in the KofC...most members don't know any of the degree parts, or even remember much about the degrees.

Fourth, as a former KT, and 4th Degree KofC, about the only thing similar between the two sets of regalia is the sword and chapeaux. The KofC 4th Degree uniform is a plain black tuxedo, sword, baldric, cape, gloves, and chapeaux. The KofC touts itself as an organization of Catholic gentlemen and the 4th Degree regalia is intended to reflect that. The KT uniform is (at least when I was active) is an actual military uniform (Coast Guard jacket, as I recall) with the sword worn from a military-styled belt and no cape. The Masonic KT (if I remember correctly) is a soldier for Christ and the regalia reflects that.

Fifth, I've not know any Council's to work with the Mason's, but I get the impression that they would if the occasion arose.

I hope I've been able to help anyone and I also hope I haven't been very off putting by my tone.
 
Ashlar2006

Ashlar2006

Masonic Mafia
KoC Ceremonial books couldn't be that hard to get a hold of or too costly , my friend just texted me that he still has his from the 90's and if he can dig it up he would give it to me .

Our local KoC is now defunct and most all the members who DID have ceremonial books have retained their copies when they closed up shop from what he told me .
 
Gary2112

Gary2112

Troll Stomper
Staff member
otherstar said:
First, I'm a KofC and a Mason.

Second, the KofC is a Fraternal Insurance Society and has a AAA Best rating for it's life insurance products. In that way, it is VERY different from Masonry. It was founded in 1882 so that Catholic men would have a way to meet together (as many fraternal organizations were springing up at the same time). The article linked previously (post #13 got that much right). The rituals linked are nothing like the KofC ceremonials of today (sorry to burst anyone's bubble), and they have changed quite a bit since I joined the order in 1988, and even more from when my late father joined in the 1960's. The KofC ceremonials are changed regularly, unlike Masonic ritual.

Third, good luck getting a copy of the ceremonial books. Ceremonial books are sent to each Council by Supreme and have serial numbers so if any goes missing, the Council gets charged a fee for losing them, and another fee to replace them. Ceremonials are not emphasized very much in the KofC...most members don't know any of the degree parts, or even remember much about the degrees.

Fourth, as a former KT, and 4th Degree KofC, about the only thing similar between the two sets of regalia is the sword and chapeaux. The KofC 4th Degree uniform is a plain black tuxedo, sword, baldric, cape, gloves, and chapeaux. The KofC touts itself as an organization of Catholic gentlemen and the 4th Degree regalia is intended to reflect that. The KT uniform is (at least when I was active) is an actual military uniform (Coast Guard jacket, as I recall) with the sword worn from a military-styled belt and no cape. The Masonic KT (if I remember correctly) is a soldier for Christ and the regalia reflects that.

Fifth, I've not know any Council's to work with the Mason's, but I get the impression that they would if the occasion arose.

I hope I've been able to help anyone and I also hope I haven't been very off putting by my tone.
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Thank you for your response to this thread. I don't find your response off putting at all. Actually, it is rather informative. I've always wondered about the similarities and differences between the two orders, and it's refreshing to get some clarification.

I don't necessarily need a copy of the ceremonial book. I'm not interested in fraternal secrets per se. I'm more curious about the operations, structure, etc. Personally, I think it would be great if the two orders worked together for the benefit of their respective communities and the population at large.

If you have any more to contribute to this discussion please feel free to do so!
 
Ashlar2006

Ashlar2006

Masonic Mafia
As I said in my first post , my lodge and KoC held monthly pancake breakfast fundraisers to raise money for various charities that they both agreed upon . None of the charities would be for a Masonic only charity or a "Catholic church only" charity . It had had to be something unrelated to each group , such as the Red Cross , the local Soup kitchen , coats for kids , etc; etc; .
 
O

otherstar

New Member
KofC Councils have a lot of officers (I think it is something like 14 if you every every position filled). Every Council has a Financial Secretary that is "appointed" by Supreme. When a Council needs a new one, the Grand Knight finds two members willing to do the job, has them fill out an application, and sends it to the Supreme Council who then selects one of the two. The FS serves for a three-year, renewable term and most are Past GKs and serve for a long time (like a Lodge Secretary). The FS is like the accountant for the Council and does everything a Lodge Secretary does, except take minutes (the KofC has an officer called the Recorder who takes the minutes).

The Supreme Knight is the head of the order world wide, and is also the CEO of the insurance side of the order (and there are paid insurance salesmen in the KofC as well). At the State level and below, the order is run similar to the Masons with an elected State Deputy, and other state officers (though there is no real "line" at any level that one moves through to become State Deputy, though one usually holds several lesser State offices before one becomes State Deputy). The same holds at the Council level. Grand Knights usually serve for two years and many Councils will have a prospective GK spend one year as Deputy GK before becoming GK. I've held the same office in my Council for well more than 5 years now (not that there is much to do, they just put my name on the form every year). Each state is divided into districts with a District Deputy (just like Masonry) who usually serves for four years and is a Past GK of one of the Councils in the district.

The only real problem I have with my particular Council is that they do not give to many groups outside of the parish. That is not true of every Council, some do a great deal for their community outside of the Church and this is especially true in smaller towns.
 
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