Question

[Blaizze]

While I have an interest in Freemasonry. I know that I cannot join due to meeting only 3 out of the 4 requirements. As I am not a believer in a Supreme Being. I am more or less Agnostic, are there exceptions to this rule?

If not, are there any organizations that are similar in nature to the Masons without this hinderance that I could be redirected to?

Thank you. Peace.

 

[Ashlar2006]

There are other "obediences" of Freemasonry that allows members in who do not believe in a Supreme Being and who also allow women to be members etc; A quick search on google for will point you in the right direction . Look for sites that promote "co-masonry" ,"atheist Freemasons" etc; etc; .

When it comes my "Mainstream" jurisdiction , when it comes to a belief in a Supreme Being , there are NO exceptions to the rule . Though we do not care what your religion is or how you worship , that is question number one , and it must be answered in the affirmative .

 

[Blaizze]

There are other "obediences" of Freemasonry that allows members in who do not believe in a Supreme Being and who also allow women to be members etc; A quick search on google for will point you in the right direction . Look for sites that promote "co-masonry" ,"atheist Freemasons" etc; etc; .

When it comes my "Mainstream" jurisdiction , when it comes to a belief in a Supreme Being , there are NO exceptions to the rule . Though we do not care what your religion is or how you worship , that is question number one , and it must be answered in the affirmative .

Thank you for the help. I can't say that I am atheistic agnostic either, my view on God is a little different then most. I am agnostic in the sense that one cannot prove or disprove the existance of a god. I do have my views on what I would view as "god."

I don't want to make this a religious discussion, just clarify my own views so that I can see whether or not they are contradictory to Masonic Tradition.

This is a summary of my own views on god: I believe that what humanity has been calling “god” for so long is really an impersonal energy, not a deity. I believe this energy flows through all things in the universe, and is the energy that one calls upon during rituals, and other things that have been deemed metaphysical or supernatural. It is the basic energy that holds the fabric of the universe together, it is what caused the big bang at the beginning of time that started all life; it is not good, and it is not evil… It is a force of nature that we have yet to understand. This energy is what gives us our consciousness and self awareness, and it is what departs us when we pass away.

I am going guess that even with my explanation it is still a no go. But I also know that the only way I will find out is by asking.

Once again thank you ashlar for the other "obediences" that I can look into. It is much appreciated. Peace.

 

[Ashlar2006]

Your welcome .

When it comes to discussions concerning religion , who is God and what is God I tend to bow out .

 

[Blaizze]

Your welcome .

When it comes to discussions concerning religion , who is God and what is God I tend to bow out .

That is why I noted that I didn't want it to be a religious discussion, it is too touchy of a subject for most. I don't want to know anyone else's views, I just wanted to know if that was an acceptable viewpoint if I was thinking about being a Mason. Or if I should seek elsewhere. Peace.

 

[BG_TRBL]

The discussion is a difficult topic to broach, and as Ashlar has stated, we don't debate the religious topics. It is your choice to which beliefs you follow, I would not deject from your own opinions. The unfortunate matter at hand is that, if you do not believe in a supreme being, that it would hamper your journey into freemasonry. I personally do not know of any bodies that are very similar to freemasonry but don't require the belief of a supreme being. I wouldn't want this discussion to get into a religious debate either. Please don't take this as any type of personal insult. I am asking because I am curious of something. If you feel that there is no specific diety in the universe, but subscribe that you do feel that there is something "larger than life" or something greater, what would make you certain that it is not a diety. I honestly don't have an answer to that, but curious as to what you opinion is of that.
I only ask, as i cannot prove the existance of something greater, but I feel there is something larger out there, and I do subscribe to the belief of a supreme being. Thank you for your response, and I hope you don't take my question as an attack, I look forward to reading your response.

 

[Blaizze]

The discussion is a difficult topic to broach, and as Ashlar has stated, we don't debate the religious topics. It is your choice to which beliefs you follow, I would not deject from your own opinions. The unfortunate matter at hand is that, if you do not believe in a supreme being, that it would hamper your journey into freemasonry. I personally do not know of any bodies that are very similar to freemasonry but don't require the belief of a supreme being. I wouldn't want this discussion to get into a religious debate either. Please don't take this as any type of personal insult. I am asking because I am curious of something. If you feel that there is no specific diety in the universe, but subscribe that you do feel that there is something "larger than life" or something greater, what would make you certain that it is not a diety. I honestly don't have an answer to that, but curious as to what you opinion is of that.
I only ask, as i cannot prove the existance of something greater, but I feel there is something larger out there, and I do subscribe to the belief of a supreme being. Thank you for your response, and I hope you don't take my question as an attack, I look forward to reading your response.

I will answer you in a PM, if I can figure out how to do it.

 

[Ashlar2006]

Ah , I was looking forward to your response . My interest has been peaked and would love to hear your feling on this also so if you don't mind Blaizze , could you send me the same PM . I am not judging you in any way , shape or form , I am just interested in your thoughts on this subject .

 

[Blaizze]

Ah , I was looking forward to your response . My interest has been peaked and would love to hear your feling on this also so if you don't mind Blaizze , could you send me the same PM . I am not judging you in any way , shape or form , I am just interested in your thoughts on this subject .

Aye aye... I sent you the same message I sent to BG_TRBL. I also sent you both a clarification message. Feel free to send me any more questions or comments. I don't do much at work, so I surf the net most of the day.

 

[Ashlar2006]

Stick around here and join in the conversations . You do not have to be a Freemason to chat with us , all are welcome .

By the way , loved the "Aye aye " , gave me a good laugh ( caught me just right).

 

[Ashlar2006]

By the use of "Aye aye " and Semper Fortis , you wouldn't happen to be a sailor would you ? I promise being a Marine myself(once a Marine always a Marine) , I will not hold it against you . You fellers patch us up (Corpsman) and gives us rides to where we need to go.

 

[Blaizze]

Stick around here and join in the conversations . You do not have to be a Freemason to chat with us , all are welcome .

By the way , loved the "Aye aye " , gave me a good laugh ( caught me just right).

I saw the semper fidelis under your SN, assumed you are either a current or former Marine, and thought you might appreciate the naval humor. I am currently in the Navy now, stationed in Yokosuka, Japan.
I'll probably stick around the forums for a while; there's not much else to do while underway, haha. I figured that I wouldn't have to be a freemason to join the site, hence the reason I did.

 

[Blaizze]

While this isn't really related to this thread, I just wanted to say that I get a kick out of your SN, the Ashlar reference is funny (to me), no offense meant by it. But I see someone on the forums here, I think rustybones, whose user title is rough ashlar, although I see that he has a lodge he is attending. Do you know what that is about. (Did I mistake the symbolism between Ahslar and Rough Ashlar somewhere)?

 

[Ashlar2006]

Rough Ashlar was already taken , so I just shortened it to Ashlar . There is the rough ashlar and the perfect ashlar . The rough ashlar is imperfect and in need of smoothing and working to make it perfect , like ourselves , so I am always working on my "ashlar" , striving to be a better person . Doesn't always work out that way though , but it is a work in progress and I ,more than likely , may never be a perfect ashlar.

 

[Ashlar2006]

I saw the semper fidelis under your SN, assumed you are either a current or former Marine, and thought you might appreciate the naval humor. I am currently in the Navy now, stationed in Yokosuka, Japan.
I'll probably stick around the forums for a while; there's not much else to do while underway, haha. I figured that I wouldn't have to be a freemason to join the site, hence the reason I did.

Some who are interested in Freemasonry join ask a question or two and are never seen again . This is why I asked you to stick around .

I spent a lot of time underway on the Iwo Jima , Saipan , Trenton , Portland and the Gunston Hall to name a few so I know what you mean . I have played a lot of Spades in my time .

 

[Deadhead Derek]

I would like to chime in on this, without it going down a particular religious path, if I may. I find the questions, and the manner in which asked and answered here wonderful. I would also like to say that as a Mason, prior to my petitioning for membership, I wrestled with , for lack of a better explanation, my definition of God. I do not subscribe to any organized or recognized religion. I look at the collective beliefs and thoughts of all mankind, throughout the span of written history, and from that I saw certain parallels that honestly , a piece of this and a piece of that summed the idea within. I found that in it's concept, the Supreme "Being" is an attempt to make that which cannot be known, familiar. I do not hold that there is a corporeal shaped Odin upon high. But in your initial posts, ( pre Navy/Marine) you indicated a feeling of a force ( Star Wars aside) This is similar to many of the animistic belief structures, and one that is key to how I perceive the Great Architect. Agian, without diving in too deep, I think, based on what I have read of your thoughts, and the fact that you do think ( a rarity in the current age) you may be closer than you think to 4 out of 4 than 3 out of 4. Just my observations.

 

[Blaizze]

Some who are interested in Freemasonry join ask a question or two and are never seen again . This is why I asked you to stick around .

I spent a lot of time underway on the Iwo Jima , Saipan , Trenton , Portland and the Gunston Hall to name a few so I know what you mean . I have played a lot of Spades in my time .

Haha, yes but your definition of a lot of time underway and mine are probably a bit different. How long were you in the Marines for? Retirement?

I promise to not just disappear from the forums, lol. I like the responses I got here. This seems to be a very civil forum.

 

[Blaizze]

I would like to chime in on this, without it going down a particular religious path, if I may. I find the questions, and the manner in which asked and answered here wonderful. I would also like to say that as a Mason, prior to my petitioning for membership, I wrestled with , for lack of a better explanation, my definition of God. I do not subscribe to any organized or recognized religion. I look at the collective beliefs and thoughts of all mankind, throughout the span of written history, and from that I saw certain parallels that honestly , a piece of this and a piece of that summed the idea within. I found that in it's concept, the Supreme "Being" is an attempt to make that which cannot be known, familiar. I do not hold that there is a corporeal shaped Odin upon high. But in your initial posts, ( pre Navy/Marine) you indicated a feeling of a force ( Star Wars aside) This is similar to many of the animistic belief structures, and one that is key to how I perceive the Great Architect. Agian, without diving in too deep, I think, based on what I have read of your thoughts, and the fact that you do think ( a rarity in the current age) you may be closer than you think to 4 out of 4 than 3 out of 4. Just my observations.

Thank you, your response is greatly appreciated. I have been looking at alternative religions ( alternative to what was my own) for about 5 years now. And from it I am piecing together my personal views; I have pretty much finalized (sp?) my personaly life philosophy. I am just working out the last few kinks. This happens to be one of them... I do believe in a being that is "out there;" but like you I do not see it as a corporeal entity, but that it just is. I have been told my views range anywhere from pagan to animistic, to pantheistic. But I would go with it being more or less a combination of the latter two. I appologize if I am delving to far into unwanted waters. let me know if I am. Once again thank you for the response, I am very grateful to have a place that I was actually able to talk to Masons about this. My one personal contact that is a Mason does not like me as a person due to some circumstances that I can't control, and refuses to talk to me about Masonry at all. My girlfriend mentioned to him about me wanting to petition (it is her supervisor), this being about 6 months ago, and out and out refused me.

 

[Deadhead Derek]

I will never fault anyone looking both inward and at the external. The core of Masonry to me is knowledge. Embracing it, realizing what you don't know, studying what you want to learn.
If in looking at the beliefs you hold, as defined only by you, you see the "Supreme Being" as another manifestation of, or label for your "Just Is" You may want to follow through with the instinct that led you to question if Masonry is right for you. As you asked, I am not soliciting here, by the way. As to the Mason who is your girlfriends superior, I would say this... there are 4 million of us in the US.. find another to talk to, often a call to a local Lodge will set you on your path....when you get off the ship though, I assume.

 

[Ashlar2006]

Haha, yes but your definition of a lot of time underway and mine are probably a bit different. How long were you in the Marines for? Retirement?

I promise to not just disappear from the forums, lol. I like the responses I got here. This seems to be a very civil forum.

Oh I know the difference between your "Underway" and mine . You actually worked , I went down in the berthing area and read a book in my rack or played spades and tried to hide from working parties . My last 6 month float , I was a short timer so I worked the entire float for the Navy in ship S-3 . I worked in the ship store and loaded soda machines and snacks machines . My higher ups asked for volunteers for the job and I was the saltiest so I got first choice and jumped at the chance . Easy gig ! Got me out of guard duty , fire watch , going out in the field and most importantly , it got me out of all the dreaded Navy OnRep and ship painting working parties and the hated mess duty(did a month in the scullery on the Trenton, never again !!!!!). I even mustered every morning with you Navy boys , I had nothing to do with my own Marine Corps unit till the day before we got back to the states . Hell , they forgot I was even there .

I was only in for 4 years . Did my time and walked . In all total I only spent about a year and 5 months out to sea in my four years . All Med. floats with the exception of going to the Bahamas and Puerto Rico 3 times .

Sorry , way off topic(and I'm a Moderator) but I am enjoying this .