female freemasons

[Ashlar2006]

Nothing but a thing . The way it sounded though, it looked like you were stating that the OES was a "female" only org . Just clearing it up for those who do not know the difference . I'm always singing the praises of the OES to Master Masons , there are some new Masons and those thinking of joining the fraternity who do not know that they can join and honestly think that it is female only .

 

[BG_TRBL]

Throughout this thread I have said my piece about what I have found and believe about female freemasons. If you read the thread you will find my posts. I agree with Ashlar that OES is a vital part of the freemasonry concept. They are often refered to as the wives of masons, but they do the same good deeds as the blue lodge. The OES is an amazing organization (although I am not currently a member, my mother is a member) They strive for the most of the same services that blue lodge contributes to, and as a Master Mason, you can elect to join the OES. I hope that anyone questioning joining or the good of masonry and OES will take it upon themselves to investigate it and talk to those involved before associating it with the sorority or girl scouts. Please don't take offense at my reference to the previous posts, but making examples of things as such, can be taken out of context easily.

 

[Joyrock]

One thing that needs to be made clear is that these posts represent the views of the poster based on their own experiences only. When someone states "women cannot be Freemasons" they should say that within "their jurisdiction women cannot be Freemasons." The latter may be true, the former is not.

Women have been Freemasons ever since Freemasonry began. Women have been and are also stonemasons and that is where Freemasonry claims it's heritage. The only medieval trade that barred from women where indeed blacksmiths. Freemasonry is not based on the working tools of smiths.

I suggest anyone interested in the subject check out the works by Brother Philip Carter. He has dedicated his life to the research and promotion of non segregated Freemasonry.

I was Initiated into a segregated male only lodge. Now, having left that behind for a gender equal lodge I could never go back. Freemasonry is full of female symbolism and in a gender equal lodge both energies are represented. IMHO it is a powerful and beautiful thing.

It is true that gender equal lodges are not "recognized" by mainstream Grand Lodges in the USA. To be honest that doesn't bother me in the slightest. In fact if that where to change tomorrow and American GL's wanted to "recognize" us we would probably reject that recognition. We are a free Sovereign and independent body, and we plan to stay that way.

Fraternally,

 

[dewwby]

The only thing I have to say is if anyone thinks that we are wrong, then they also think any college frat or sorority is also wrong.

 

[Joyrock]

Freemasonry is not a continuation of the Greek Row experience nor is it a substitute for it. I feel that too many come to the West Gate thinking so.
Freemasonry is a progressive science and an arcane art passed through and evolving throughout the ages. It is rife with female symbolism for a reason.
Fraternally,

 

[dewwby]

I know full well what Freemasonry is, never went to a traditional school and probably would not have joined a frat if I had. I am just saying that it is just funny how we get slammed for not admitting females but no one says a word about a college fraternity for not allowing females.

It is a private organization. If one decides to join a "modern" or "gender equal" lodge becasue they view different, then that is fine, who am I to judge, I am not going to slam you for it. Until traditional Masonry changes their view, I will still plug right along as I always have. If they chose to change it, it will not deter me from the organization.

There are lots of organizations out there that still have the men in the main fraternal organization and a "Ladies Aux." The Moose I know is one as my boss is in the Ladies AUX. It seems Freemasonry takes the most heat for it though.

Most are right though that our degree work would be very difficult to perform in it's current form.

 

[Joyrock]

I know full well what Freemasonry is, never went to a traditional school and probably would not have joined a frat if I had. I am just saying that it is just funny how we get slammed for not admitting females but no one says a word about a college fraternity for not allowing females.

It is a private organization. If one decides to join a "modern" or "gender equal" lodge becasue they view different, then that is fine, who am I to judge, I am not going to slam you for it. Until traditional Masonry changes their view, I will still plug right along as I always have. If they chose to change it, it will not deter me from the organization.

There are lots of organizations out there that still have the men in the main fraternal organization and a "Ladies Aux." The Moose I know is one as my boss is in the Ladies AUX. It seems Freemasonry takes the most heat for it though.

Most are right though that our degree work would be very difficult to perform in it's current form.

What do you mean by "traditional form?" I mean the first lodge of speculative only Masons was in the 13th century and it was comprised of both genders.

As far as the other goes in regards to ritual some men have breasts too and they are not made to feel embarassed as the upper portion is the only part exposed.

There need be not "Ladies Aux" because unike the Moose, Freemasons are not a civic drinking club.

Segregation is a terrible and outdated profane practice. It has zero to do with real Masonic tradition or history and everything to do with revionist sexism.

S&F,

 

[manfernandez]

I have read this thread and although it may be late, I will give my $0.02

I am proud to say that I am a Master Mason. I have been through all the Blue Lodge degrees (obviously). I feel if women were allowed into FreeMasonry, the rituals would all need to be changed. Part of what I find appealing is that the system of morality is still relevant today. I like the fact that FreeMasons are men only. I truly believe that it would be difficult if not impossible for a man to put aside his wife's honor if they would have a dis-agreement with a brother/sister.

Additionally, I think "preparing" to become a Mason could open the organization to possible legal issues.

NOTE: The following is to be a funny statement

As far as OES not being perceived as equal, well I think if someone starts some rumors about OES trying to take over the world and maybe make a movie about some secret treasures, then have a bunch of anti-OES write ridiculous stories of how they worship the devil, then maybe you would have the same "perception"

**Joke over**

I think women are equal to men, in some cases better. However, Freemasonry should remain as it is today. No offense to the women members of this forum.

Thanks

Manny

 

[Ashlar2006]

To each their own . I like my "Male only" obedience . I will say this right now though , this will not turn into a p***ing contest , end of discussion !! If one does not like it that we do not allow women into our "Mainstream" institution , then so be it , if you are not a part of our group then it is none of your concern as it is none of my concern that other groups allow women into their ranks . Any posts attacking one side or the other will be promptly removed and this thread locked .

Just nipping this in the bud early so it does not turn ugly . There is to much hate and discontent on other forums because one from another group does not like how we do things , who we should let in or who we should recognize . And this will no longer happen here .

 

[csalazar1830]

The lodge that I'm going to petition also has an OES that meets in the same building. They do not meet together. If the OES meets at the same building does that mean that this lodge is not a real/regular Masonic lodge?

 

[BG_TRBL]

No it does not mean that the lodge you are petitioning is not a regular lodge. It simply means that the O.E.S. meets in the same lodge room as the Blue Lodge, just not at the same time. My lodge has a chapter of O.E.S. that meets in our lodge room as well. It happens quite often to reduce the costs of owning and maintaining a lodge building.

 

[Ashlar2006]

The Lodge is a regularly constituted Lodge . My lodge also has a OES chapter that shares our building .

 

[Gary]

Mine does as well.

 

[Winter]

The reason women cannot become Freemasons comes from two Landmarks of Freemasonry. The Landmarks of Freemasonry are unwritten laws that form the basis of every Grand and subordinate Lodge constitution. The Landmarks are the foundation on which Freemasonry stands.

LANDMARK EIGHTEENTH Certain qualifications of candidates for initiation are derived from a Landmark of the Order. These qualifications are that he shall be a man, shall be unmultilated, free born, and of mature age. That is to say, a woman, a cripple, or a slave, or one born in slavery, is disqualified for initiation into the rites of Masonry. Statutes, it is true, have from time to time been enacted, enforcing or explaining these principles; but the qualifications really arise from the very nature of the Masonic institution, and from its symbolic teachings, and have always existed as landmarks.

and

LANDMARK TWENTY-FIFTH The last and crowning Landmark of all is, that these Landmarks can never be changed. Nothing can be subtracted from them-nothing can be added to them-not the slightest modification can be made in them. As they were received from our predecessors, we are bound by the most solemn obligations of duty to transmit them to our successors. Not one jot or one title of these unwritten laws can be repealed; for in respect to them, we are not only willing but compelled to adopt the language of the sturdy old barons of England - "Nolumus legen mutari."

A woman cannot, for these reasons, ever become a Freemason. Any organization that purports to do so is Clandestine and not Freemasonry.

This in no way means we think of women as less than men, or that the OES is subserviant. This is just the way it is. To abandon the Landmarks would be to abandon Freemasonry.

 

[PatrickWilliams]

I think that women should be given the equal rights for anything. Why ban them from this site. This site will benefit from a lot of women posting here.

Choco, there ARE women who post here. We aren't talking about banning women from this site, we're talking about how women cannot be made Masons in most jurisdictions.

It is also very true that there are women only Lodges (they even have a Grand Lodge system in the UK) and mixed, or co-fraternal Lodges available for women to join, but they are not allowed to visit or belong within many Grand Lodge systems.

 

[PatrickWilliams]

This in no way means we think of women as less than men, or that the OES is subserviant. This is just the way it is. To abandon the Landmarks would be to abandon Freemasonry.

I could not have said it better. Indeed, the Landmarks rule, and every Mason is charged with upholding them.

 

[Gary]

I think that women should be given the equal rights for anything. Why ban them from this site. This site will benefit from a lot of women posting here.

We don't ban them from this site. They are welcome to post and participate here just like anyone else. In fact there are several that do.

The topic here is their participation in regular Masonic Lodges as initiated Freemasons.