This could be interesting

[Lax67]

WOW...... now we are comparing Masonry to leisure activities..... I would NOT want to be a member of a Lodge that would not accept me simply because I could not afford a very expensive dues.... $1000....STUPIDLY HIGH......sorry I dont mean to offend anyone but ANYONE that says raising the dues by hundreds of dollars is guarding the west gate.... I say that is total bullsh!t........ you are now putting a monetary price on Masonry. Now dont get me wrong... $100-$150 would be an acceptable rate for dues but and the same for degrees......

WE Guard the West Gate by doing better investigations of whom we are letting in.... their bank account or ability to pay hundreds of dollars is not a good judge for the type of man they are........

We are taught to measure our time and plan accordingly. Comparing the cost and time commitment of Masonry to anything else in our life is a fair approach to this topic. Is Masonry the same as stamp collecting? Heck no. But looking at opportunity cost may help us winnow down to an acceptable annual cost.

I never took raising dues as a tactic to guard the west gate. If that were so, it would be incorrect to do so for several reasons. I took it as raising dues to increase the quality of the BLUE lodge experience for each member.

 

[BukeyeJackson]

When I looked at the Pan-Hellenic fraternities in college they easily charge 1200 every two years in dues.

 

[removed12612]

I dont like comparing the fraternity with any other because there is nothing to compare to it..... if we are going to act like other fraternities then we should do the same as they do.....I have no issues with dues being raised to a reasonable amount but like said, once they get 300-400 for the degrees and dues 500 that is getting way out of hand. NOW... if you wish to set a fee for dinners and such that is not connected to the yearly dues, I am all for that..... I believe 100-150 is a good rate for dues and another 120 (10 per month) for dinners that sounds cool.....BUT let it be known that no pay...no eat......This would elevate high fees for our senior Brethren that may be on fixed incomes and are not able to attend....why should they pay for dinners if they are not able to attend.

If we tag the Guarding of the West Gate along with high dues, we are making money a top issue when deciding on who we let in..... I know more Good Men that are struggling to make ends meet that would make great Masons than I do financially stable men I would want or sign a petition for.

I fear that if we set the monetary cost out of reach we will loose many Good Brothers and not attract new men ....... We all can attest to the value of our journey but to a profane that may be interested, big dollar signs may just be what prevents a Good Man Becoming Better......OR we must be honest and change from 2B1ASK1 to 2B1U NEEDAGRANDOR2.....

 

[Gary2112]

WOW...... now we are comparing Masonry to leisure activities..... I would NOT want to be a member of a Lodge that would not accept me simply because I could not afford a very expensive dues.... $1000....STUPIDLY HIGH......sorry I dont mean to offend anyone but ANYONE that says raising the dues by hundreds of dollars is guarding the west gate.... I say that is total bullsh!t........ you are now putting a monetary price on Masonry. Now dont get me wrong... $100-$150 would be an acceptable rate for dues but and the same for degrees......

WE Guard the West Gate by doing better investigations of whom we are letting in.... their bank account or ability to pay hundreds of dollars is not a good judge for the type of man they are........

No offense taken, but I don't feel that it's bravo sierra. It's a start to get men to think before they run off and join just for the sake of being in a cool "club".

I agree with your statement in bold, but we all know that this does not happen. As much as we say it should, it boils down to the fraternity being hell bent on generating numbers and not quality.

That said, I do think there should be a limit on how much dues should be raised. It shouldn't be totally cost prohibitive, but it should be enough to give pause on the seriousness of our fraternity before joining. I for one am sick of seeing men join, only to squeak by to get the MM degree and then never return to Lodge. We are making it way too easy for them to join and remain in the fraternity by having cheap dues.

My stance on this is to bring serious consideration for the fraternity instead of saying yeah, I'll join so I can be a (insert appendant body name here). The Craft Lodge is the most important thing, and if that means fewer men join it will cause other things to change in the process to bring us back in line with our traditional foundations.

 

[jaya]

I love masonry and am very active in my lodge. If dues were $300 a year right now, I could not afford that. I would end up leaving. Yes raising dues would seem to increase money brought in. However, the elasticity of supply and demand shows there is a limit where increasing dues would have a negative effect. At some point, the decrease in members would be greater than the increase in dues and therefore cost money.

 

[removed12612]

No offense taken, but I don't feel that it's bravo sierra. It's a start to get men to think before they run off and join just for the sake of being in a cool "club".

I agree with your statement in bold, but we all know that this does not happen. As much as we say it should, it boils down to the fraternity being hell bent on generating numbers and not quality.

That said, I do think there should be a limit on how much dues should be raised. It shouldn't be totally cost prohibitive, but it should be enough to give pause on the seriousness of our fraternity before joining. I for one am sick of seeing men join, only to squeak by to get the MM degree and then never return to Lodge. We are making it way too easy for them to join and remain in the fraternity by having cheap dues.

My stance on this is to bring serious consideration for the fraternity instead of saying yeah, I'll join so I can be a (insert appendant body name here). The Craft Lodge is the most important thing, and if that means fewer men join it will cause other things to change in the process to bring us back in line with our traditional foundations.

I agree 110%..... except for bravo sierra....tagging a high price is not Guarding the Gate...... I think just as you that the cost should cause the candidate to put some serious thought into whether the fraternity is right for him.......Also....I do think the Craft Lodges should be on equal scale as the appendant bodies........ And YES we do make it too easy..... a middle ground is fine but 300 for degrees is just nuts.... unless you include the first years due in with it....

 

[jason]

What about other forms, like making x amount of meetings mandatory. Or putting in x amount of hours of volunteer work in the Lodge. You can fix up the building, cook for things like a pancake breakfast or Holiday party?

What is ok with someone, may not be for someone else. Bill Gates can pay $20k a year and not be affected, while Joe down the street that may be his whole salary. In Florida, there are a lot of retires on a fixed income. With everything going up but their SS many are having to choose between medication, or dues. What is the point of paying dues if you are dead from not taking the medication.

What about offering two price tags. An extremely high one for those who can afford it, and one that is a lot less for those who are willing to put the work into the Lodge. Just trying to get minds open on other ideas.

 

[jaya]

The issue with 2 different dues for those that can afford it and lower for those that can not so easily is that in lodge we are supposed to be on the level. By charging some higher than others makes it seem like not everyone is on the level.

 

[Gary2112]

I agree 110%..... except for bravo sierra....tagging a high price is not Guarding the Gate...... I think just as you that the cost should cause the candidate to put some serious thought into whether the fraternity is right for him.......Also....I do think the Craft Lodges should be on equal scale as the appendant bodies........ And YES we do make it too easy..... a middle ground is fine but 300 for degrees is just nuts.... unless you include the first years due in with it....

This thread has got me thinking. While I agree with your argument, something has to be done. Hitting the pocket book always seems to give pause. I'm open to your ideas though Fireman.

What about other forms, like making x amount of meetings mandatory. Or putting in x amount of hours of volunteer work in the Lodge. You can fix up the building, cook for things like a pancake breakfast or Holiday party?

What is ok with someone, may not be for someone else. Bill Gates can pay $20k a year and not be affected, while Joe down the street that may be his whole salary. In Florida, there are a lot of retires on a fixed income. With everything going up but their SS many are having to choose between medication, or dues. What is the point of paying dues if you are dead from not taking the medication.

What about offering two price tags. An extremely high one for those who can afford it, and one that is a lot less for those who are willing to put the work into the Lodge. Just trying to get minds open on other ideas.

Maybe there could be a payment plan, or maybe an incentive for activity in Lodge?

The issue with 2 different dues for those that can afford it and lower for those that can not so easily is that in lodge we are supposed to be on the level. By charging some higher than others makes it seem like not everyone is on the level.

True. We should be on the level. Level to me implies a balance. Maybe Work done could balance the financial obligation. This would make it better for those who are financially challenged, but worthy of membership with their desire to participate in ways beneficial to themselves and the Lodge...

I like this thread. It's got us brainstorming options. Not that it will change anything, it's fun to speculate. Maybe some of these ideas will work their way into Lodge discussion when this subject comes up.

 

[BukeyeJackson]

Hey I'm not saying we should change. I'm lucky my states average dues are 52 a year! I'm in favor of a small increase.


Then again I'm young enough to pay the $800 to become and ENDOWED MEMBER.... I like the ring of that!.... and live well... I still plan on donating to the Lodge if I do.

 

[removed12612]

Bro 2112.....

My thoughts would be to require a period of 2-3 months of a get to know ya time period where the candidate(s) are required to attend a certain amount of events. Once that is met, I see nothing wrong with 300 in the beginning that would include the first years dues also.... This price would keep out the gawkers......then dues anywhere between 100-150 afterwards.

Like Jaya said.... if ya jack up the dues you will drive away more than you will attract. If a candidate is serious in my get to know ya phase would/should be aware by then that the initial start up costs will be worth it....

 

[removed12612]

Hey I'm not saying we should change. I'm lucky my states average dues are 52 a year! I'm in favor of a small increase.


Then again I'm young enough to pay the $800 to become and ENDOWED MEMBER.... I like the ring of that!.... and live well... I still plan on donating to the Lodge if I do.

hmmmm........ this didnt cost me anything.......:1-shy::1-wink-grin::1-say-no:

 

[jason]

The issue with 2 different dues for those that can afford it and lower for those that can not so easily is that in lodge we are supposed to be on the level. By charging some higher than others makes it seem like not everyone is on the level.

What I proposed is that you would have two groups.
Example:
Group 1. Pays $250 a year dues. You are not required to do any work at the Lodge. You do not even have to visit Lodge.

Group 2. Pays $125 a year dues. You are required to help out in 6 degrees and perform 10 hours of Lodge service per year.

This allows the people in Group 2 who cannot afford to pay the $250 to support their Lodge in other ways. Yes, it may be seen as a two tier system though. But it is a though.

One reason why I thought of it though is because of my daughters school. We pay a fee, but we also put in 10 hours of service per year, per child at the school, plus snacks for her class are provided by parents. The more parents in the class, the less snacks you have to provide. Last year it was about every other week, this year it is closer towards once a month. This has allowed to keep the cost of the school down compared to other similar types of schools in the area.

I just do not feel like saying that X amount of money is require to spend on dues to be a member. Money should not be the measure of a man. Plenty of good men have little or no money. But they may have the time, the desire, the passion that is long sought after in the Lodge.

Anyway, its been a long day, I'm on my second glass, and I've learned to log off after too many. So I wish you a great night, full of laughter and happiness. I will "see" you tomorrow, if the guy in the sky allows.

 

[jason]

Hey I'm not saying we should change. I'm lucky my states average dues are 52 a year! I'm in favor of a small increase.


Then again I'm young enough to pay the $800 to become and ENDOWED MEMBER.... I like the ring of that!.... and live well... I still plan on donating to the Lodge if I do.

I did the perpetual membership when I could afford it. Not sure what the future would bring, and I would hate to have to make the choice between feeding my family and dues. I already know which would win.

 

[removed12612]

What I proposed is that you would have two groups.
Example:
Group 1. Pays $250 a year dues. You are not required to do any work at the Lodge. You do not even have to visit Lodge.

Group 2. Pays $125 a year dues. You are required to help out in 6 degrees and perform 10 hours of Lodge service per year.

This allows the people in Group 2 who cannot afford to pay the $250 to support their Lodge in other ways. Yes, it may be seen as a two tier system though. But it is a though.

One reason why I thought of it though is because of my daughters school. We pay a fee, but we also put in 10 hours of service per year, per child at the school, plus snacks for her class are provided by parents. The more parents in the class, the less snacks you have to provide. Last year it was about every other week, this year it is closer towards once a month. This has allowed to keep the cost of the school down compared to other similar types of schools in the area.

I just do not feel like saying that X amount of money is require to spend on dues to be a member. Money should not be the measure of a man. Plenty of good men have little or no money. But they may have the time, the desire, the passion that is long sought after in the Lodge.

Anyway, its been a long day, I'm on my second glass, and I've learned to log off after too many. So I wish you a great night, full of laughter and happiness. I will "see" you tomorrow, if the guy in the sky allows.

Thats just a good start.... drunk posting can be fun...:1-say-yes:

 

[BukeyeJackson]

hmmmm........ this didnt cost me anything.......:1-shy::1-wink-grin::1-say-no:

:1-say-no::1-say-no::1-say-no: One time fee dues for life. Others want to change the name... I like it.

What I proposed is that you would have two groups.
Example:
Group 1. Pays $250 a year dues. You are not required to do any work at the Lodge. You do not even have to visit Lodge.

Group 2. Pays $125 a year dues. You are required to help out in 6 degrees and perform 10 hours of Lodge service per year.

This allows the people in Group 2 who cannot afford to pay the $250 to support their Lodge in other ways. Yes, it may be seen as a two tier system though. But it is a though.

One reason why I thought of it though is because of my daughters school. We pay a fee, but we also put in 10 hours of service per year, per child at the school, plus snacks for her class are provided by parents. The more parents in the class, the less snacks you have to provide. Last year it was about every other week, this year it is closer towards once a month. This has allowed to keep the cost of the school down compared to other similar types of schools in the area.

I just do not feel like saying that X amount of money is require to spend on dues to be a member. Money should not be the measure of a man. Plenty of good men have little or no money. But they may have the time, the desire, the passion that is long sought after in the Lodge.

Anyway, its been a long day, I'm on my second glass, and I've learned to log off after too many. So I wish you a great night, full of laughter and happiness. I will "see" you tomorrow, if the guy in the sky allows.

Truly seperate the ruffs huh? I do like the plan though.

 

[jaya]

The officers are responsible for doing degree work. Also, what would happen to those that did not have enough degrees in the year for them to do what ever number was set. Then you have the issue of someone that is older, lives on social security, and is unable to make it to lodge on a regular basis. By that plan, they would have to pay the higher price. That might make a brother that has been a member for decades demit. If they pay the lower price, it gets back to everyone being on the level. There are way to many issues with a multi tier dues to be fair to everyone.

 

[Ashlar2006]

I have been biting my tongue on this one but I read a comment on another forum from a Brother of the GL of Massachusetts who made the statement that "If we can not comment on other jurisdictions , then why have Masonic forums?" . So......

As this is a Grand Lodge issue (granted it will effect lodge dues) . Let's look at what we should be focusing on , the Grand Lodge .

From the article it seems they are spending more than they have coming in (or soon will be ) and the ads/commercial membership program is taking a big chunk of their money . So again , and I can not stress this enough , look into where that money is going by reading the Grand Treasurers annual budget report on DISBURSEMENTS . As I said earlier , you will be extremely surprised .

Do me a favor , all of you look into it , and then come back here and tell me if you would approve your Grand Lodge doubling your per capita . They have to account for every dime of your money spent and it is your right to see where it goes . I know I would not approve it unless some changes were made in spending first , and if that did not correct the problem (which it would) then I may approve it .

This IS NOT a matter of "what is Freemasonry worth to you" , it is about the over spending of a Grand Lodge .

 

[FF Sparky]

I agree to all the pro's and con's of everyones ideas. Could we figure a projected amount over a 5 or 10 years span and increase a certain percentage over this time? I wouldn't hit us as hard right off the bat. Fundraising is another good way of bringing in monies. Chargin for dinners to make money and not just cover costs works for me too. And yes, it is our money so we should be able to see how it is spent and see where cut can be made. This is how we ran the volunteer fire department. Certain bills were automatically paid, alot had to be approved. Especially over a certain amount.

If we have to pay more, we should see or get more to an extent.

 

[jaya]

I know NC publishes the proposed budget and current information in the Report book they hand out at annual communication. Each and every brother has the right to see how the money is spent by the GL. Those that attend the GL as representatives for their lodge have the responsability to make sure the money is spent wisely.