Trouble joining

[kyklopes]

Greetings!

Since 2003, I have tried to joining my local lodges (two different ones in my community) only to be blackballed every time. I am not certain as to why.

Any ideas?

 

[Gary]

You got black balled? or was there a problem with your application and background check? There is a difference.

 

[BG_TRBL]

Greetings!

Since 2003, I have tried to joining my local lodges (two different ones in my community) only to be blackballed every time. I am not certain as to why.

Any ideas?

I would strongly suggest that you contact the signers of your petition, they would be of the greatest help to you. They should be able to ascertain what the reason was, or at least a general idea of it. Once that has been satisfactorily resolved, you can attempt to re-petition the lodge. Hopefully all will be sorted out and taken care of. Good luck and keep us posted of your progress.

 

[Andersc1]

There could be several reasons why you may not have been voted in. There could be something you submitted on your application that does not check out, as suggested above. Someone listed on your petition could be offering a bad reference, an ex-wife perhaps. There could have been a new lodge member during the votings who was not familiar with the voting system and simply made a mistake. Like I said, there could be several reasons a petition was denied.

I would not give up though, but rather question the individuals who signed your petition for answers. Chances are, they were present when the voting took place and would be able to give you an accurate explaination of why your petition was rejected.

 

[Coxman]

This is strange, although I heard of it happening. Following the advice of the others, and do not give up.

 

[kyklopes]

I don't see how I could fail a background check as I have no criminal record. What I was told is that someone "didn't like me" who is a member of both Lodges.

So, while I am at a loss, I am going to keep trying.

 

[Gary]

If that were the case, during your initial application, that should have come up in Lodge, and if they decided to turn you down they most certainly should have given you a reason for rejection.

I agree that you should contact the Masons who signed your petition to get some more information regarding the issue.

The person who doesn't like you knows you personally?

 

[Brother Liberty]

Someone just not liking you is not a sufficient reason to block application. They must have some information about you that they feel is detrimental to the lodge and indeed, the fraternity. There has got to be more to the story.

 

[kyklopes]

The only thing I can think of is that I was an outspoken liberal Democrat up until 2006. I was never anti-military or anti-America nor was I rude or obnoxious in espousing my views in my community.

However, I vehemently opposed the war on humanitarian grounds and was not a fan of then-President George W. Bush. My feelings have changed a great deal since then.

Who rejected me? I do not know who as that is something that cannot be disclosed to a non-member, nor did I ask. That was all the people who signed my petition told me: that someone didn't like me (I am assuming because of my then anti-war stance) and that was why I was/have been blackballed.

That is all that I can think of. My record is clean, I am a college graduate and gainfully employed and have no major debts. While I am not a perfect person, I don't see anything in my past history that could be objectively taken as making me a bad person.

I suppose my mistake was being too vocal in the past?

 

[Ashlar2006]

To be honest , Who ever blackballed you can not be disclosed too members either . At least in my jurisdiction that is . If any brother informs others of how he voted when a blackball has been thrown , he is in violation of the laws , rules and regulations of my Grand Lodge and will be found guilty of un-Masonic conduct .

 

[Gary]

I have no idea if this would help or not, but it certainly couldn't hurt. Have you tried contacting the Grand Lodge via a letter of explanation, and what you perceive to have happened?

For a Lodge to deny you admission based on what you've said, is kind of strange to me. Especially if you don't know the person who "didn't like you". You must have been quite a public display back in 2006 for him to remember you.

 

[Winter]

I have to go back in the Wisconsin Code but if I remember correctly, when a ballot is returned as not clear, it is passed again to make sure it was not a mistake. If it is still not clear, the Brother who cast negatively has 48 hours to tell the WM why. The WM then inform the Grand Master who makes a decision.

If nobody comes forward within 48 hours to explain the negative vote, then the petition is declared accepted at the next meeting.

If the candidate is rejected, he is not told why or told who cast the negative vote.

 

[Ashlar2006]

I have to go back in the Wisconsin Code but if I remember correctly, when a ballot is returned as not clear, it is passed again to make sure it was not a mistake. If it is still not clear, the Brother who cast negatively has 48 hours to tell the WM why. The WM then inform the Grand Master who makes a decision.

If nobody comes forward within 48 hours to explain the negative vote, then the petition is declared accepted at the next meeting.

If the candidate is rejected, he is not told why or told who cast the negative vote.

Huh , interesting . So your ballots are not completely secret ?

In my jurisdiction , no brother , from the Grand Master to the newest Master Mason , is permitted to ask how or why another brother has voted and like I stated earlier , no Brother is allowed to say how and why he voted one way or another .

 

[PatrickWilliams]

Huh , interesting . So your ballots are not completely secret ?

In my jurisdiction , no brother , from the Grand Master to the newest Master Mason , is permitted to ask how or why another brother has voted and like I stated earlier , no Brother is allowed to say how and why he voted one way or another .

True, in the Wisconsin jurisdiction a ballot is only completely secret if it is clear and if the Brother (or Brothers) who case a black cube fails to come to the WM within 48 hours of the ballot.

 

[FamilyMan]

True, in the Wisconsin jurisdiction a ballot is only completely secret if it is clear and if the Brother (or Brothers) who case a black cube fails to come to the WM within 48 hours of the ballot.

Interesting. So at that point, is it only the WM who knows the identity of the Brother who cast a black cube? Did I read the post correctly that then the WM and the GM have to approve the black cube?

 

[Winter]

Correct, the reason must be sufficient.

Here is the relevant Code portion:

Wisconsin Masonic Code
71.11 If Ballot is Not Clear. If the ballot is not clear, the Master shall not ask the Wardens to declare the color of the
ballot nor shall the Master declare the color of the ballot himself. The Master shall order the destruction of the ballot, and
he shall order an immediate re‐ballot to be taken without remarks or discussion on the part of the members.

71.12 Reballot
Procedures. Any re‐ballot shall be conducted as in section 71.10. If the re‐ballot is clear, the Master
shall declare the result. If it is not clear, the Master shall, after ascertaining from the Wardens the result of their
inspection, declare that the ballot is not clear. The Master shall then order the ballot destroyed.

71.13 Master’s Authority if Reballot
Not Clear. If the re‐ballot is not clear, the Master shall declare that
accountability for the casting of the negative vote shall be required in order for the applicant to be rejected. The Master
shall then state that any member who has cast a negative vote shall within 48 hours identify himself to the Master and
inform the Master that such member has cast a negative vote and state the reasons therefore.

1) If the Master shall be timely informed by a member that he has cast a negative vote and the Masonic reasons therefore,
the Master shall refer said reasons to the Grand Master in writing. Upon receipt the Grand Master will determine the
legality of the reasons in accordance with the Masonic Code and respond to the Master in writing of his decision. The
Master shall, at the next stated communication of the Lodge declare that he has received accounting from a member on
the negative vote cast against the applicant and of the decision of the Grand Master. Neither the identity of the member
casting the negative vote nor the reasons therefore shall be disclosed. The Master shall then declare that the petition has
been either accepted or rejected based on the decision of the Grand Master.

2) If the Master shall not have been timely informed by any member that the member has cast a negative vote and
the reasons therefore, the Master shall at the next stated communication of the Lodge, declare that the petition
has been accepted.

 

[kyklopes]

To be honest , Who ever blackballed you can not be disclosed too members either . At least in my jurisdiction that is . If any brother informs others of how he voted when a blackball has been thrown , he is in violation of the laws , rules and regulations of my Grand Lodge and will be found guilty of un-Masonic conduct .

You right, of course. That is why I didn't ask.

 

[Gary]

You right, of course. That is why I didn't ask.

You are correct that they won't tell you "who" voted against you, but they sure as heck should have told you why other than a member "doesn't like you".

There has to be more to it than that. I hardly think that excuse would sit well in a lodge before ballot without a discussion of validity of the reasoning first.

 

[PatrickWilliams]

Interesting. So at that point, is it only the WM who knows the identity of the Brother who cast a black cube? Did I read the post correctly that then the WM and the GM have to approve the black cube?

Yep, only the WM knows.

 

[thebrianmo]

I am very sorry for the experience you are having. But if it is in your heart to be a Mason, then, please do not give up. Follow the advice others have already offered. Talk to those who signed your petition. Someone not liking you is not sufficient reason to vote against you.

Just as an example, I might not agree with your political stance and you might not agree with mine, but that is why we do not discuss such things in the lodge. Masons are to live quiet and peaceful lives.

Talk to the people who signed your petition. Talk to the secretary of the Lodge. Surely someone will be able to provide you with more information.

As long as you believe in God and are of good moral character and desire of your own free will to join....

There is either more to this story or someone in the lodge has violated the law and that is another matter all together.