Why

[removed12612]

Again, They have to play nice in the sand box. You aren't going to get rid of them, so you might as well strap in for the long haul Brother.

OR move on to better lands (Lodges)......the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.... I believe it is definitely an exercise in futility staying in a no win situation....the ruffians are not gonna allow you to get what you are looking for and make them look bad...they want to keep everyone down to their level and will hold down a Mason looking to build his temple higher....

Sometimes a Brother makes an error in judgement when selecting a Lodge...especially if the Lodge has zero functions for you to get to know much about the Lodge. The best thing about being raised is you can now go out and explore different Lodges and find what you are looking for..... "If the mountain wont come to Mohammed....then Mohammed will have to go to the mountain"

 

[Gary]

OR move on to better lands (Lodges)......the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.... I believe it is definitely an exercise in futility staying in a no win situation....the ruffians are not gonna allow you to get what you are looking for and make them look bad...they want to keep everyone down to their level and will hold down a Mason looking to build his temple higher....

Sometimes a Brother makes an error in judgement when selecting a Lodge...especially if the Lodge has zero functions for you to get to know much about the Lodge. The best thing about being raised is you can now go out and explore different Lodges and find what you are looking for..... "If the mountain wont come to Mohammed....then Mohammed will have to go to the mountain"

Einstein said that about insanity.

The way I see it, you don't know anything about a Lodge or Freemasonry for that matter until you petition and are initiated. If you don't like what you see once you are accepted into a Lodge you can always find another one.

The problem with that is that you'll likely encounter the same obstacles (to some degree) no matter where you go. That's why I think TO/EC Lodges are becoming more and more talked about lately.

What's stopping you from speaking your mind in Lodge? The ruffians that you talk about are bullying the Brother in question into silence and submission. He is entitled to the same rights and benefits that they are. He seeks light and they should support that regardless of what their opinion about it is. Plain and simple I won't be bullied by anyone. No Brother should for that matter.

I'm fixing to rock the boat in my locality too. Wait until you read my paper. Most won't bother to read between the lines, but that's on them. Luckily for me, my situation doesn't seem as bad as the one you are discussing. But just the same, attempts have been made to quiet me. I'm going to tip the scales back toward the Level, and I'm going to use our teachings to do it too.

 

[Zack]

VERY TRUE....but if those that are delivering it can not explain and teach it...then it is nothing more than words that they have memorized...you can teach a bird to repeat stuff....that doesnt mean they know it.....If I learn some greek words and can say them well doesnt mean I know the greek language.....it simply means I can repeat things.......Dont get me wrong, I do think knowing the ritual and being able to do the degree work well is very important....but if no one can explain what has been taught taught from the degree then it is no more than a play put on by some good actors.

"The beauty of ritual is that it allows lessons to be passed on by those who don't understand them."

Without it being passed on, by whomever(parrot) and however(rote), it will never have the chance to be heard by one who might learn from it.

 

[removed12612]

Brother Zack...you are absolutely correct....but what is you thought on the other aspect of the conversation....never has the ritual presentation been in question.....the issue is what about after the ritual has been presented, do you just turn the newly raised Brother loose and so its now what you make of it.....???

 

[Gary]

I've been told on more than one occasion that; "it's up to the individual Brother to interpret the lessons and symbolism for himself, because each person interprets them in his own way".

The funny thing is, It made me ask even more questions, and look to other Brothers for advice and direction to find the answers I was looking for. Ironically, the Brothers who gave me the most help were not members of my Lodge (although there are a couple in my Lodge that I can ask).

You can't become discouraged because you don't get the answers you seek right away.

A Brother shouldn't necessarily give the answer, but instead lead you in a direction to find it for yourself. It makes a much bigger difference in your path to further Light.

Trust me, I know the frustration of this issue all too well. Keep the faith, and before you know it you'll be the one in your Lodge answering the questions of those who ask why...

Tip- Start by doing short Masonic Education talks at your stated communications. It has done me a world of good, not to mention a platform to implement (dare I say it...) change!

If you want, I'll be glad to share some of my papers. Most are short, and easy to deliver.

 

[removed12612]

I've been told on more than one occasion that; "it's up to the individual Brother to interpret the lessons and symbolism for himself, because each person interprets them in his own way".

The funny thing is, It made me ask even more questions, and look to other Brothers for advice and direction to find the answers I was looking for. Ironically, the Brothers who gave me the most help were not members of my Lodge (although there are a couple in my Lodge that I can ask).

You can't become discouraged because you don't get the answers you seek right away.

A Brother shouldn't necessarily give the answer, but instead lead you in a direction to find it for yourself. It makes a much bigger difference in your path to further Light.

Trust me, I know the frustration of this issue all too well. Keep the faith, and before you know it you'll be the one in your Lodge answering the questions of those who ask why...

Tip- Start by doing short Masonic Education talks at your stated communications. It has done me a world of good, not to mention a platform to implement (dare I say it...) change!

If you want, I'll be glad to share some of my papers. Most are short, and easy to deliver.

Brother, I would be more than glad if you would share your papers with me. As for Masonic Education....well I guess in the technical sense of the word, it is being attempted in our stated...as long as it doesnt keep us too late....a stated of more than an hour and fifteen minutes and the natives are not happy.

As far as exploring on my own...THAT is what has caused me to question more as well....I do consider myself lucky to have Brothers on here to bounce my ideas and thoughts off of but it sure would be nice to be able to sit in person and do it as well......

I read on another forum that questioning things in masonry is often taken as an act of defiance (How dare you question the way it has been done for the last 100 years).....but when in reality, questioning is the perfect opportunity for education.....the door has been opened....

 

[mdonahue66]

Wow guys. I must belong to a Great Lodge. We have fabulous Masonic discussions with many great teachers. We usually have more guys who would like to participate in ritual then we have parts for, and they are all genuinely interested in both the quality of the ritual, and the meaning. After Lodge, we usually get between 8 and 20 guys to assemble at the local American Legion or KC hall for refreshments, fraternity, and usually a little more masonic discussion. Here's one from a few weeks ago....From Joppa, bound for Ethiopia?? Does that even make sense?? If we have parrots, then it's the young guys just trying to learn the ritual. They'll get the meaning down with experience. Maybe we have one old timer who some would consider a ruffian. We'll give him his say, but then he's subdued by the masses. And he's with us having good fun afterwards. And we have lots of Masons. Yep, I feel lucky to have this lodge, and outside of my family, maybe my work, it has made the biggest impact on my life and happiness, as well as my productivity as a better man in my community.

 

[removed12612]

SURE...rub it in.....JK Brother, that is awesome.....

 

[Duncan1574]

My Lodge is the gold standard in South Eastern Wisconsin for ritual. Posting is serious business. I too feel lucky that I tripped over a great Lodge.

 

[CoachN]

"Ritual is but the vehicle by which Masonic knowledge is delivered."

Truer Words cannot be conveyed.

 

[CoachN]

...but if no one can explain what has been taught taught from the degree then it is no more than a play put on by some good actors.

Yep. So true!

 

[Ashlar2006]

Wow guys. I must belong to a Great Lodge. We have fabulous Masonic discussions with many great teachers. We usually have more guys who would like to participate in ritual then we have parts for, and they are all genuinely interested in both the quality of the ritual, and the meaning. After Lodge, we usually get between 8 and 20 guys to assemble at the local American Legion or KC hall for refreshments, fraternity, and usually a little more masonic discussion. Here's one from a few weeks ago....From Joppa, bound for Ethiopia?? Does that even make sense?? If we have parrots, then it's the young guys just trying to learn the ritual. They'll get the meaning down with experience. Maybe we have one old timer who some would consider a ruffian. We'll give him his say, but then he's subdued by the masses. And he's with us having good fun afterwards. And we have lots of Masons. Yep, I feel lucky to have this lodge, and outside of my family, maybe my work, it has made the biggest impact on my life and happiness, as well as my productivity as a better man in my community.

I have a great lodge also . Very , very busy with functions , get to-gethers , Masonic education , outings , fellowship etc; etc; And I really spoke out of turn , we do have brothers who can do the work and are knowledgeable Masons , they are simply too busy with work and families and can not be active (or as active as they would like to be) right now . We have many brothers who can do small parts here and there but once I start rolling in a degree , I just soon do it all myself to keep it straight in my head . My officers know what they are doing also . We have a few older Masons who are extremely knowledgeable . I have the New Brothers sent to me because I am always there , first to lodge and last to leave , and I always have my nose stuck in a book . We also have new or fairly new Masons (one in particular) who are now taking up the reins .

My lodge is full of Masons , they may not all know ritual or what is behind the ritual , but they will do anything for each other , give one another the shirt off their backs , lift a Brother up when he is down , make him smile when he is sad , lend him aid when in need and just be there for one another .

It takes all kinds to make a lodge work . We have brothers who can not perform ritual and are not into the esoteric , but it is these brothers who are performing the odd jobs around the lodge , working our lodge functions and always there when the doors are open . This is their contribution to the lodge . We have other brothers who can not do manual labor and are not into the esoteric , but know the by-laws and constitution backwards and forwards and know the ins and outs of how a lodge is ran and if we have a question about the laws , rules and regulations , we turn to them . We have brothers who can not perform ritual , but know the whys' and what fors' behind the ritual and brothers who can parrot but not know the why. And so on and so forth .

 

[Gary]

Each Brother is a cog in the gear that runs the fraternity. They all have equal importance and value. Take one out, and things don't run smoothly.

Thanks for sharing that Ashlar!

 

[Zack]

"As soon as we realize that the Ritual is but the vehicle by which we deliver Masonic knowledge we will be able to not judge by the ritualistic performances but by Brothers performance as a Brother."

I read this somewhere and liked it.

 

[Ashlar2006]

Each Brother is a cog in the gear that runs the fraternity. They all have equal importance and value. Take one out, and things don't run smoothly.

Thanks for sharing that Ashlar!

No problem . After reading some of these posts it got me to thinking . Not all brothers are good ritualists (or ritualists at all ) , and some do not study the esoteric as they should . But they should not be made to feel bad about it . They are all equally important . I can sit before/after lodge and talk Freemasonry with a few brothers and come home happy , but I can talk fishing or UK basketball with them also and come home just as happy . I can study Freemasonry on my own , I just want to be with my Brethren .

 

[Ashlar2006]

One last thought . I sometimes sit back with my arms crossed before and after lodge without saying a word to watch & just listen to my Brothers chatting . They may not be talking about the importance of the Compasses or what the Square means to them etc; etc; , but there is a smile on every face , there is much laughter , they are genuinely glad to be there with one another and that makes me happy .

 

[Gary]

"As soon as we realize that the Ritual is but the vehicle by which we deliver Masonic knowledge we will be able to not judge by the ritualistic performances but by Brothers performance as a Brother."

That is a very profound statement!

 

[removed12612]

I for one would rather have Brothers who live the lessons and can teach by their actions over ones that can repeat ritual like a champ. Living the way a mason should is offering a hand to a Brother in time of need...taking the time to get to know them and their families. I know people are busy and cant be at the Lodge multiple times a week....I had a Brother help me paraphrase my thoughts and this is what he said:
Why would a man with a wife or significant other, working or struggling along,a couple kids and their activities want to go and spend a few hours once a month and argue over who is gonna fix the toilet...or vote to pay the utility bills and insurance....

I do not see where a business meeting has much of any masonic education....has any lodge voted to not pay the bills??? I doubt it...unless they were closing.

 

[mdonahue66]

Why would a man with a wife or significant other, working or struggling along,a couple kids and their activities want to go and spend a few hours once a month and argue over who is gonna fix the toilet...or vote to pay the utility bills and insurance....

I do not see where a business meeting has much of any masonic education....has any lodge voted to not pay the bills??? I doubt it...unless they were closing.

Do a lot of your meetings (I'm asking everyone, not just fireman) really go like that?? Quite a few years ago, we set up a non profit benevolent association and deeded the lodge to it. By laws of the benevolent association allow that the lodge elects 4 officers/directors each year to manage it, as well as the WM as a voting member of the board, and the JW and SW as non-voting members. Big projects (last year we put a roof on the building to the tune of about $40k) come before the lodge for discussion as a courtesy, but the decision still lies with the board of the association. Our stated communications usually consist of Masonic business (petitions, voting, reports from investigation commitees), lodge fund raising, members of appendant and concordant bodies usually give quick reports on their events, a masonic education lecture (we are blessed by a very devoted and knowledgeable LEO) and any business that a brother might want to bring business before the lodge. We do an excellent opening and closing in form, and then, for any brother who wishes, we retire to the local American Legion or Elk's club for more leisurely fellowship. No (or very little) bickering over the small stuff.

 

[BukeyeJackson]

Do a lot of your meetings (I'm asking everyone, not just fireman) really go like that?? Quite a few years ago, we set up a non profit benevolent association and deeded the lodge to it. By laws of the benevolent association allow that the lodge elects 4 officers/directors each year to manage it, as well as the WM as a voting member of the board, and the JW and SW as non-voting members. Big projects (last year we put a roof on the building to the tune of about $40k) come before the lodge for discussion as a courtesy, but the decision still lies with the board of the association. Our stated communications usually consist of Masonic business (petitions, voting, reports from investigation commitees), lodge fund raising, members of appendant and concordant bodies usually give quick reports on their events, a masonic education lecture (we are blessed by a very devoted and knowledgeable LEO) and any business that a brother might want to bring business before the lodge. We do an excellent opening and closing in form, and then, for any brother who wishes, we retire to the local American Legion or Elk's club for more leisurely fellowship. No (or very little) bickering over the small stuff.

My Lodge sounds like this with Fireman's mixed in. Then we minus the AL or Elk's for an occasional BW3's

Our Asst Leo (unofficial) is a newer Brother with some esoteric minded discussion. That is when not doing the mandatory GL given topics. Our recent was who is the Real Hero of the MM degree?