freemasonry v/s religon

[juniordeacon85]

i need your help on this one
I know as masons when we someone tries to discount who we are and what we are about we should turn the other cheek and not get involved in any arguments with those who do not know.
so here is my problem: My sister is a baptist ministers wife (southren baptist at that)(i also am baptist) and they had a speaker come to thier church (an ex mason) and state that we are some huge cult. Now i know that we have all heard that before but i just get so upset when someone THINKS they KNOW what we are all about. her arguments... 1.we meet in secret, my answer we post all our meetings. 2.we are open to all religons. aren't all fraternities??? 3. We worship a sun god... yeah thats a new one to me too.4. our rituals. first of all if we are so secret then how whould she know about our rituals anyway. and i try and tell her that its about tradition but shes not hearing that. In a book I have written by S. Brent Morris Ph D. and 33 degree mason he states "Its not that you can't find out what the secrets are, it's that it is important to the mason himself no to tell them." I metion to her that there are many masons in our lodge that are deacons and even a preacher in their churches, and she even discredits them as true christians. Now how christian is that?? I tell her about the good we do for the orfins widows community, and needy. what the Shriners do with the hospitial AT NO CHARGE. And her answer to that is that all of that is just a big cover up to hide who we are. I try to direct her to websites where she can read on our wonderful history and then ofcorse she directs me to the anti ones. I try and tell her that all of the stuff she says i have not seen and she says thats because im not HIGH enough to be told. Now corect me if I am wrong but I am a 3rd degree MM and in the blue lodge there is noone higher and we are all equal. And if it dosen't go on in the blue lodge then where dose it!!??..
So brethen as you can see i am flustered what im am asking of you is two things 1. your imput. 2. if someone comes to you and tries to discredit who you are as a person b/c you are a mason. Hold your head high smile and turn away because they do not know and we have a proud history and promiseing future.

 

[BG_TRBL]

juniordeacon85,
The unfortunate truth as you are experiencing it, is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion (Even your sister). You can only offer the information to her that you have learned (and you know what you may and may not divulge per your oaths and obligations). Within Blue Lodge, the 3rd Degree Master Mason is the highest degree you will receive, The first 3 degrees in masonry are the most important, as these are the base of all future learnings. You must make the decision on your part if you choose to fight "ignorant" or not. I would suggest not fighting the individuals who have a preconceived notion of our venerable institution, rather to offer in retrospect any information to her as long as she is acceptable to it. The worst thing you could possibly do is to try to force information which she is reluctant to accept.
Information on freemasonry (good and bad) is probably the most written about topic, you can search for any aspect of freemasonry on the internet and get returns in the millions on that topic. The hardest part is to try to decipher what is true and what is not. You will see that regardless of which site you visit there is information about freemasonry (some excellent and correct in my perspective, some questionable and easily discounted by the tenets of freemasonry). I have found that a very common denominator in the "Anti-Freemasonry" websites is that it centers around religion. The Masonic institution is not a religious body, it accepts men from every religion, and the fraternity circumscribes the entire earth. These men meet, on the level, (each equal to the other, regardless of social or economic status) with the underlying premises that the fraternity is there and they meet for this overall purpose "TAKE GOOD MEN, AND MAKE THEM BETTER". This exists in a multitude of ways and I will not take the time here to address them.
If you truly wish to change the thinking of someone with a mindset against something, that in itself is a daunting task. I would suggest however, that you arm yourself with a multitude of knowledge, which you can attain from the internet or literature, and then ask if your sister would like to sit down and ask questions of you about the fraternity. You may answer them as honestly as possible without violating your vows. If you sit down with an open mind, and she is able to do the same, you both may come out of the discussion with a better understanding of why you each feel the way you do.


GOOD LUCK and I wish you the best in your pursuit.

 

[Ashlar2006]

Very good answer BG_TRBL . I've been through the same thing with one of my friends . He stumbled on the Ex-Masons For Jesus web site and likes to bash the fraternity by using their misinterpretations of our rituals and out right lies from other so called ex high ranking masons like Jim Shaw and Bill Schnoebelen . He also likes to bring me those Jack Chick booklets , which aren't worth the paper they're printed on . I've calmly answered some of his questions that I could but told him I wouldn't argue over Masonry . He found religion and was saved , which is great , but he is constantly trying to witness to me . He not only does not like me being a Mason , he doesn't like it that I think everyone can worship their own religion . Alas , it finally came to the point to were I told him that he is no longer welcome in my house , we've been friends for many years and this a shame , but I will not be preached at everytime I see him . Very sad !

Best of luck to you , and like you said , keep your head held high and be proud that you're a Freemason .

 

[mollyL]

As a non-Mason, I have to tell you that it is essential that you speak out forcefully to correct the spurious tales and untruths that float around out there. Whatever their motivation may be, ignorant people repeating the same old stories to other ignorant people simply perpetuates the falsehoods. There is no shortage of easily-persuaded folks who can be swayed by the sensational tales that are told, and I feel that they must be offered the truth to counter the lies. I'm not suggesting that you reveal your rightly-held traditions and secrets, but I fear that you make a mistake when you allow claptrap to go unanswered. Yours is a noble and honorable institution; stand up for yourselves.

 

[BG_TRBL]

Ashlar,
I am very sorry to hear that it had come to that with your friend. I luckily have not had that situation present itself to me. I applaud you for your strongly held conviction, however it doesn't make it any easier I am sure.

Molly, I appreciate the support and wholeheartedly agree with your principles, unfortunately I have found that, even when armed with the truth, and discussing the general tennets of freemasonry, they are ultimately my truths. I say this because regardless of the topic, if 2 or more individuals disagree with each other, they hold their own "truths" close to heart. No one wants to be told they are wrong, or proven wrong, Most will fight to the end even if the beliefs they are fighting for are filled with gaps. I calmly and intellectually try to offer the information that I am willing to give. It ultimately is up to the individual if they are open minded enough to accept it. I truly wish all individuals were as open to information as they should be. The world would be a much more intellectually advanced place.

Lastly, after that comment, don't forget about the Darwin awards which Jason has offered to you. They in effect do tend to limit the fish swimming out of the shallow end of the gene pool.

 

[juniordeacon85]

Ashlar, I too am sorry to here that about your friend. I hope it dose not come to that for me and my family. BG_TRBL, Thank you for your input and I am always trying to gain more knowledge about our fraternity. Molly as I agree with you I find that if you engage in verbal conflict with someone they hold their own beliefs true and their is no convincing otherwise. It seems like if someone tells another a good thing about masons, and another says something bad, people tend to believe the bad for some reason

 

[mollyL]

I think that the reason people will believe the sensationalized stuff is because they're inclined towards the concept that whatever they don't know must be wicked. When folks see a person on trial invoke their constitutional right against self-incrimination they assume the person is guilty, even though invoking that right means no such thing.

 

[juniordeacon85]

well said molly i couldn't agree more

 

[Green-Moo]

As a non-Mason, I have to tell you that it is essential that you speak out forcefully to correct the spurious tales and untruths that float around out there. Whatever their motivation may be, ignorant people repeating the same old stories to other ignorant people simply perpetuates the falsehoods. There is no shortage of easily-persuaded folks who can be swayed by the sensational tales that are told, and I feel that they must be offered the truth to counter the lies. I'm not suggesting that you reveal your rightly-held traditions and secrets, but I fear that you make a mistake when you allow claptrap to go unanswered. Yours is a noble and honorable institution; stand up for yourselves.

As another non-Mason, I'd add to MollyL's comments. Where there is not information easily available, ignorant people will make it up. Unfortunately the Mason's have made themselves an easy target in the past. Once incorrect information has passed into the public domain it is very difficult to correct.

 

[juniordeacon85]

I recently found out that the southern baptist spent over $100,000 to investigate freemasonry and concluded that it should be up to the individual to decide for themselves if they want to join

 

[Green-Moo]

I recently found out that the southern baptist spent over $100,000 to investigate freemasonry and concluded that it should be up to the individual to decide for themselves if they want to join

What an appalling waste of resources. I've investigated Free Masonry & it's cost me absolutely nothing!! Imagine what better uses there are for $100,000.

 

[Ashlar2006]

Agreed , many "Christians" like Ex-Masons for Jesus and others like them spend their time railing against Masonry when there are the homeless , the hungry , the poor , the orphans and crimes against the innocent to worry about yet they waste all their time worried about us . Huh , I guess I don't see it .

 

[cemab4y]

Correct

I recently found out that the southern baptist spent over $100,000 to investigate freemasonry and concluded that it should be up to the individual to decide for themselves if they want to join

==> Your information is quite correct! The investigation that you refer to was made back in 1992-1993. The Southern Baptist Convention spent a year, and $100,000 to investigate the Craft, and issue a report. The report concluded that there were some elements of Freemasonry that were possibly objectionable to Christians, but that the decision to participate in Freemasonry was best left to the individual man.

 

[jason]

I try not to "fight" with others over the issue. I will discuss it, and try to enlighten them, but I will not argue. There are people who take things to extremes, and sadly, religion is something people take to the extremes. I've seen a female brought to tears because the Catholic church she was to be re-married at called her a whore, slut and much worse, not to mention calling two kids names and telling them they are going to hell because they were married Baptist first. Now there are some people who forget their Masonic vows also. I've seen some Brothers forget the main tenants of Freemasonry. So there is no perfect in any group of people. Sadly, this presents a bad front for that group of people.

My friends and family know I'm a Mason. Some find it funny, others don't care, and some don't understand what it is to be one. I educate them only when they ask me questions, and have never argued with any of them. The same goes for strangers.

But thats just my 0.02 cents.

 

[Hawker]

Analysis of anti-Masonry

This is a link to an excellent paper analyzing anti-Masonry from a religious/ counter cult perspective:

The New Anti-Masonic Movement in America Melissa Dawn Bruzas

This is a link to a BYU review of anti-Mormonism and it will be obvious to anyone who pays any attention that the jokers are largely the same:

Anti-Mormonism and the Newfangled Countercult Culture - FARMS Review

The BYU study will give you an indication of the scale and spread of the problem and both together make clear that the problem is not going away anytime soon but will probably get much worse before it gets better.

Frankly, given the level of organization these people have developed, an organized response is demanded. EVERY Grand Lodge in the United States should be posting SEVERAL Youtube videos a month of various events from the inspirational to the mundane. Grand Lodges MUST insist that individual lodges maintain their own websites (the Grand Lodge of Connecticut provides a facility for a web page for every lodge but many are not maintained). Local lodges should be REQUIRED to post video blogs of charitable events they host. This should all be Grand Lodge policy just as proficiency in ritual, etc.

The amount of Masonically produced information out there has increased in the last decade but the capacity to turn it into a flood exists.

This is not about a numbers game, or defining Masonry as a charity vs. an esoteric institution. It is about countering hatefull zealots.

Because if they didn't hate, why would they suggest that, for instance, even if they serve a good purpose the Shrine Hospitals should not exit because the organization is evil, or Scottish Rite Learning Centers or Hospitals, or Masonicare?

I know the various Grand Lodges can't work together to save their lives, but this should not be that difficult. One of the biggest problems are the Masons who don't have/ don't use/ don't understand/ don't care about computers. Up here the only place you will really encounter anti-Masonry is on the internet.

 

[Ashlar2006]

You bring up some good points . I was talking to a couple of Grand Lodge officers on just this point this past weekend . But it all comes down to this , you are beating a dead horse . A zealot will cling to their beliefs come hell or high water and no amount of information you give them that , beyond a shadow of a doubt , proves them wrong will not sway them . They will tell you what you say is lies or find another avenue to come at you . I have lost friends and a couple of family members because of religion long before I became a Freemason . They let it consume them and change the very essence that made them who they were . They became nothing more than sheep and stated that every book , other than the bible I read , every show or movie I watched and any music I listened to , other than gospel music, was a sin .

I attend church and I believe in Jesus . But I am who I am . I'll stuff myself at Thanksgiving till I'm about to burst . I will watch The Texas Chainsaw Masscre or Halloween with glee . I will read the next Bentley Little , Dean Koontz or even the next Harry Potter novel for that matter with a twinkle in my eye ! I will hold my head high and be proud that I am a Freemason ! I will do all this without guilt . But I will not go against the charge delivered to me as an EA and argue with an "anti" . It is a useless endeavor , that will never bear fruit . To them , they are right and we are wrong . From the first formation of a lodge of Freemasons there has been someone speaking out against us and there always will .

 

[BG_TRBL]

Very nicely put Ashlar, I wholeheartedly agree with you and what you said. It has been one of our fraternal charges as we worship as our hearts require, Religious disputes are never suffered within the lodge, and to govern yourself with temperance against the insidious and ignorate, also of those who speak spitefully of our venerable institution. Respect others and their points of view but never let it sway you in your beliefs and vows of which you have been partakers and your parts in them.

 

[Hawker]

This is what happens if we stay silent

You bring up some good points . I was talking to a couple of Grand Lodge officers on just this point this past weekend . But it all comes down to this , you are beating a dead horse . A zealot will cling to their beliefs come hell or high water and no amount of information you give them that , beyond a shadow of a doubt , proves them wrong will not sway them . They will tell you what you say is lies or find another avenue to come at you . I have lost friends and a couple of family members because of religion long before I became a Freemason . They let it consume them and change the very essence that made them who they were . They became nothing more than sheep and stated that every book , other than the bible I read , every show or movie I watched and any music I listened to , other than gospel music, was a sin .

I attend church and I believe in Jesus . But I am who I am . I'll stuff myself at Thanksgiving till I'm about to burst . I will watch The Texas Chainsaw Masscre or Halloween with glee . I will read the next Bentley Little , Dean Koontz or even the next Harry Potter novel for that matter with a twinkle in my eye ! I will hold my head high and be proud that I am a Freemason ! I will do all this without guilt . But I will not go against the charge delivered to me as an EA and argue with an "anti" . It is a useless endeavor , that will never bear fruit . To them , they are right and we are wrong . From the first formation of a lodge of Freemasons there has been someone speaking out against us and there always will .

I agree with everything you say. But anti-Masonry is closely related to anti-Semetism, and anti-Mormonism (they constantly try to wrap the relationship with Masonry around Mormon's necks). As Masons we have a duty to the truth, and to treating people fairly. Letting a hateful and bigoted lie stand is as good as telling it ourselves.

The results of these lies are hatred:

YouTube - Supposed Christians Protesting the Mormons

We should not respond because we think we can change their minds. We should respond because we have a duty to the truth and to oppose the hatred these people spread. Just because we are not to enter into religious disputes does not mean we must tolerate hatred in the name of religion particularly when they use our gentle craft to spread it. If that is the case, ours is a worthless endeavor.

 

[Ashlar2006]

Hawker , I've been thinking about my post and just making sure you know that I was not critizing you . Like you , I would love to shout at the anti's from the roof tops at how wrong they are about our Fraternity . I just know from experience from the days before I was a Freemason it will not help .

 

[Ashlar2006]

I agree with everything you say. But anti-Masonry is closely related to anti-Semetism, and anti-Mormonism (they constantly try to wrap the relationship with Masonry around Mormon's necks). As Masons we have a duty to the truth, and to treating people fairly. Letting a hateful and bigoted lie stand is as good as telling it ourselves.

The results of these lies are hatred:

YouTube - Supposed Christians Protesting the Mormons

We should not respond because we think we can change their minds. We should respond because we have a duty to the truth and to oppose the hatred these people spread. Just because we are not to enter into religious disputes does not mean we must tolerate hatred in the name of religion particularly when they use our gentle craft to spread it. If that is the case, ours is a worthless endeavor.

I see were you are coming from , have you ever been on "Ex-Masons for Jesus "? Will make your blood boil .