EA Topic Transgendered people

[Duncan1574]

I have a couple of questions for discussion. The usual Masonic restrictions apply.

1. If a Brother Mason discovers he is transgendered aka a woman in a man's body and proceeds with the transformation to become a woman what should be the response of :
a: the Brother
b: the Lodge

2. If a woman discovers she is transgendered aka a man in a woman's body and proceeds with the transformation to become a man and applies to become a Mason what should the response of the Lodge be?

 

[jaya]

The man becomming should leave the lodge. They should not be allowed to stay a brother. The woman becomming a man is a little harder, if known before they petition I would have to think about it hard before I were to vote for them.

Duncan, is there something you want to tell us?

 

[Duncan1574]

The man becomming should leave the lodge. They should not be allowed to stay a brother. The woman becomming a man is a little harder, if known before they petition I would have to think about it hard before I were to vote for them.

Duncan, is there something you want to tell us?

NOPE! I do have TG friends and thought this would be an interesting discussion topic.

 

[goomba]

I would go safe to ensure I did not violate my obligations. I think both would be disqualified to be a Mason. I would probally like GL's thoughts prior to any action.

 

[Duncan1574]

I would go safe to ensure I did not violate my obligations. I think both would be disqualified to be a Mason. I would probally like GL's thoughts prior to any action.

I see how the was-man fits, but what about the is-man? (I think I coined new terms, better than transister)

 

[Windrider]

Having had some small experience with a woman trying to become a man, I can tell you what I said to my daughter when she asked me to call her friend a man. I said I would call her a man when she grew a Y chromosome.

It seems to me that when our Ancient Landmarks were written this issue did not exist and a part of the Senior Deacon's actions when receiving a Candidate ensures that a woman would not be able to last long at the West Gate.

If a man no longer identifies himself as a man, he should do the honorable thing and demit.

 

[Duncan1574]

Having had some small experience with a woman trying to become a man, I can tell you what I said to my daughter when she asked me to call her friend a man. I said I would call her a man when she grew a Y chromosome.

It seems to me that when our Ancient Landmarks were written this issue did not exist and a part of the Senior Deacon's actions when receiving a Candidate ensures that a woman would not be able to last long at the West Gate.

If a man no longer identifies himself as a man, he should do the honorable thing and demit.

I agree with the was-man, but what if an is-man approaches a Lodge seeking membership? If they are living as a man, do they qualify being a man, free-born......

 

[Windrider]

I agree with the was-man, but what if an is-man approaches a Lodge seeking membership? If they are living as a man, do they qualify being a man, free-born......

I'm probably biased in this as the woman who wanted to become a man had many other issues including heroine addiction. My opinion is that God doesn't make mistakes. Two X chromosomes makes you a woman no matter how much surgery you have.

 

[Duncan1574]

I'm probably biased in this as the woman who wanted to become a man had many other issues including heroine addiction. My opinion is that God doesn't make mistakes. Two X chromosomes makes you a woman no matter how much surgery you have.

But what if they present themselves as a man? What if you couldn't tell they were ever a woman?

 

[jaya]

It would come up in the background check. You would know.

 

[goomba]

I agree with the was-man, but what if an is-man approaches a Lodge seeking membership? If they are living as a man, do they qualify being a man, free-born......

But the female was born a free man. She was born a free woman. It takes more to be a man than to have male plumbing, some males on their death bed have never reached manhood. On a lighter side I guess I have a new question to add to my background investigation: Are you currently or have you ever contemplated having a sex change?

Bro. Duncan is this a hypothetical situation or something on going?

 

[Duncan1574]

Totally hypothetical, totally. This is not a discussion about transvestites. This meant to be a discussion about people who were born a physical sex but with the psychology and soul of the other. Different also from homosexuality. Once I am on my PC I'll post a couple of URLs.

 

[Duncan1574]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transgender

 

[jaya]

Personally I do not think that one is born with the soul of the other sex. I do not think that the GAOTU would make such a mistake. It is a choice by the individual to have the sex change. Changing the outside does NOT change the chromosone makeup.

 

[Windrider]

Well, I guess Genetic Screening will be the next test we give our petitioners We had enough trouble with criminal background checks...

 

[Duncan1574]

Personally I do not think that one is born with the soul of the other sex. I do not think that the GAOTU would make such a mistake. It is a choice by the individual to have the sex change. Changing the outside does NOT change the chromosone makeup.

I have met & am friends with several transgenders, who are now happy, well adjusted humans, a couple of the men would be excellent Masns. I am sure that I have met transgenders and never even knew it.

So how would you answer my questions?

 

[jaya]

We should not tell how we would vote on a paticular ballot. However, It would be really hard for me to vote for someone that "changed". They might be " happy, well adjusted humans" as you stated but freemasonry does not admit everyone. I would not call them "men" either. They might have the parts but they do not have the actual DNA. They are not a man biologically. I might be getting more stuborn as I get older (only 43) but I do not see someone changing their sex as a good thing.

 

[Duncan1574]

Sorry to have let my thread dwindle off (See Biopsy).

A truly transgendered person is not distinguishable as 'different'. If a petition were received AND the background check was clear AND the IC had a clean interview. Should we as Masons care that their DNA doesn't match their physical appearance and behavior?
Are you going to ask for a DNA test? Really?
My guess is that you know a couple of transgendered people, but you don't that they are.

 

[Gary2112]

I really don't know what to think of this topic. I guess if the petition doesn't ask, then it's sort of a don't ask don't tell sort of a thing. I can't imagine that a transgendered person would bring the subject up. woman trans to man that is.

Now a Brother who decides he wants to be a woman? I say go join a clandy co-mason Lodge if you want to wear a skirt in Lodge. Main stream masonry does not permit women, so it goes without saying that that applies to Brothers who dress as women in the Lodge.

 

[Duncan1574]

If you can't tell should you care?