Arguments against recognizing PHA Masonry-They'll take over!

[Bob Franks]

[These arguments are posted for purpose of exposure and discussion. They do NOT represent my personal views. I am posting them to promote discussion and education of Masons who may not know how to respond to them.]

6. Everything we let "them" into, they want to come in at the top and take over.

Please press "Post Reply" to respond to this argument.

 

[mdonahue66]

yeah, like football. Now "they're" playing quarterback and coaching teams....Bob, I think you've hit all the points that someone could argue as potentially legitimate in your prior threads, and when they've been shot down, all that's left is ignorance and bigotry.

 

[PatrickWilliams]

You know, the strangest part of this one is that it is also the argument that some PHA Masons have to reconciliation.

 

[Ashlar2006]

You know, the strangest part of this one is that it is also the argument that some PHA Masons have to reconciliation.

I have heard this argument from PHA Masons before also .

 

[Bob Franks]

I have heard this argument from PHA Masons before also .

I, for one don't blame them for that sentiment. In NC, we have about 54k AF&AM (predominately european ancestry) Masons, and about 14k F&AM (Prince Hall Affiliate) Masons.
If the two GLs were to merge, they could be swallowed up without a trace. The Prince Hall Grand Lodges have a proud and dignified history. None of the PH Masons that I have spoken to about it wish to lose this.

S&F

 

[removed12612]

Bob... I think you have hit the nail on the head....The PHA dont want to be absorbed into the MS GL..... and the MS is not going to merge with the smaller group....think of it as a business venture, the bigger of the two business will absorb the small entity every time. It is not a racial issue...so lets NOT say it is.....I believe it is more along the lines of neither side not wanting to give up their identity....and the money each individual GL has.....how do you merge them with out the smaller group feeling left out??? That is the $100,000.00 question....... feelings WILL get hurt....

 

[DavisB]

Bob... I think you have hit the nail on the head....The PHA dont want to be absorbed into the MS GL..... and the MS is not going to merge with the smaller group....think of it as a business venture, the bigger of the two business will absorb the small entity every time. It is not a racial issue...so lets NOT say it is.....I believe it is more along the lines of neither side not wanting to give up their identity....and the money each individual GL has.....how do you merge them with out the smaller group feeling left out??? That is the $100,000.00 question....... feelings WILL get hurt....

Is merging necessary? Why can't there just be mutual recognition?

 

[mdonahue66]

Guys, I don't think it's about merging. It's about recognition. In MN, the Grand Lodge of MN AF&AM and the PHA Grand Lodge have recognized each other as regular Masons for 16 years. We afford them the same courtesies we do the Grand Lodge of Wisconsin, or South Dakota, or whatever. There has been no discussion, to my knowledge of merging. Maybe this has happened in other states, but I haven't heard of it.

 

[Bob Franks]

Bob... I think you have hit the nail on the head....The PHA dont want to be absorbed into the MS GL..... and the MS is not going to merge with the smaller group....think of it as a business venture, the bigger of the two business will absorb the small entity every time. It is not a racial issue...so lets NOT say it is.....I believe it is more along the lines of neither side not wanting to give up their identity....and the money each individual GL has.....how do you merge them with out the smaller group feeling left out??? That is the $100,000.00 question....... feelings WILL get hurt....

Is merging necessary? Why can't there just be mutual recognition?

Just like how the GLs in NC and VA are not likely to merge either. Masons in each jurisdiction would think it's crazy talk!

S&F

 

[removed12612]

If we are not talking about merger...then I would have to say that mutual recognition boils down to either one or both sides dont want it...or ETJ...that is it...not other reason at all....

 

[Zack]

Recognition would be/is a half step in the right direction and probably the best that can be hoped for in some cases.

I still maintain that recognition without visiting privileges and fraternization is just a measure to make some GL's feel good about themselves and get the critics off their backs.

imo. ymmv.

 

[removed12612]

I wonder what is/will be acceptable to all parties involved.....If we have recognition and visitation, will that be OK with everyone?? Will that stop the discussions?? I personally dont think we will ever see a combination..... that is a pipe dream..... recognition & visitation is probably the best we will ever have.

 

[TrowelTalk]

I know that I'm not one of the most prolific posters, but I have contributed and like the forum. So please take this opinion on the subject of this and all the other similar "Arguments Against PH" threads with a grain of salt:

 

[Bob Franks]

I know that I'm not one of the most prolific posters, but I have contributed and like the forum. So please take this opinion on the subject of this and all the other similar "Arguments Against PH" threads with a grain of salt:

[/IMG]

My brother, I apologize if you feel overdosed on PHA discussion...but you don't have to click on the link the thread.

I have been passionate about this several years: since my lodge dropped me out of 'line' after speaking out before we voted 'for' recognition, and before that I questioned why (even in the Liberal North!) blacks and whites were separate on Lodge nights.

Please browse discussions you enjoy.

S&F

 

[Duncan1574]

If they can, let them after all they are Masons and if they have better ideas, methods, etc, then perhaps it will make Freemasonry stronger.

(I know, I mentioned that horrible word: change)

 

[Ashlar2006]

I used to be very outspoken about recognizing PHA , BUT I have been beaten over the head with it from those outside my jurisdiction and labeled a racist for where I reside that I have quit caring . I will not be bullied or made to feel guilty about something (which I am not saying this is what these threads are all about) from outsiders .

The nearest PHA lodge to my home lodge is well over 100 miles from us and , to be honest , the subject just never comes up . We do not sit around and actively think of ways NOT to recognize them because we do not talk about PHA (good or bad) at all because there are no PHA Masons anywhere near us and are way off our radars .

If we had a local PHA lodge in my town/area , I am sure we would talk about it more . But the last PHA Lodge in my town closed it's doors in the late 30's early 40's and it's memories are lost to the sands of time .

 

[mdonahue66]

I used to be very outspoken about recognizing PHA , BUT I have been beaten over the head with it from those outside my jurisdiction and labeled a racist for where I reside that I have quit caring . I will not be bullied or made to feel guilty about something (which I am not saying this is what these threads are all about) from outsiders .

The nearest PHA lodge to my home lodge is well over 100 miles from us and , to be honest , the subject just never comes up . We do not sit around and actively think of ways NOT to recognize them because we do not talk about PHA (good or bad) at all because there are no PHA Masons anywhere near us and are way off our radars .

If we had a local PHA lodge in my town/area , I am sure we would talk about it more . But the last PHA Lodge in my town closed it's doors in the late 30's early 40's and it's memories are lost to the sands of time .

Ashlar, I hope you don't feel bullied (can you bully a Marine?) and I hope you don't take anything on this forum as a personal attack. While I am, and will remain a believer in PHA recognition, it's really a non-issue here as well. While we (GL MN AFAM) recognize PHA, none (that I know of) have sat in my lodge, nor have I, or anyone I know from my lodge, sat in a PHA lodge. In fact, I've only met one PHA Mason. Finally, I can assure you (unfortunately) that racism is not exclusive to the south.

 

[Ashlar2006]

Ashlar, I hope you don't feel bullied (can you bully a Marine?) and I hope you don't take anything on this forum as a personal attack. While I am, and will remain a believer in PHA recognition, it's really a non-issue here as well. While we (GL MN AFAM) recognize PHA, none (that I know of) have sat in my lodge, nor have I, or anyone I know from my lodge, sat in a PHA lodge. In fact, I've only met one PHA Mason. Finally, I can assure you (unfortunately) that racism is not exclusive to the south.

I have not taken anything from our regular members on here as attacks , but there have been a few hit and runs .

 

[Windrider]

I have not taken anything from our regular members on here as attacks , but there have been a few hit and runs .

Illegitimus non tatum carborundum

 

[Br_Eric_Hill]

I've got friends that are PH masons and we don't recognize either one. Kinda puts a little strain on the relationship but until the MS Grand Lodge changes things it is what it is...