Forum Question from Elsewhere

[FF Sparky]

I think everyone should comment and discuss their real feelings about all of these issues. Let's not bring any of this into other threads, but refer other threads back to here if necessary.

So what do you think about Masons that form a motorcylce club and wrap it into Masonry? What do you think about cross dressing in lodge and giving awards for it? What do you think about those that find it offensive? What do you think about brothers that promote it? What do you think about brothers that will only pay $25 a year dues, are failures in their own lives, but run your local Masonry while spending the founders money? What do you think about those brothers that constantly want to raise dues? What do you think about those brothers that want to make it easy to get into Masonry? What do you think about those brothers that want to make it tough to get into Masonry? What do you think about the hard line Christian that thinks that is what Masonry is about? What do you think about the Mason that thinks everyone should get in whether they are Warlocks or have no beleif? What do you think about those brothers that don't want to do Masonry as you want Masonry done? What do you think about that brother sitting next to you in lodge that you wouldn't trust your dog with? What do you think about those brothers that didn't have to memorize as much as you? What do you think about those brothers that just want to make Masonry memory work? What do you think about those brothers that just want to have the women around all the time? What do you think about those brothers that never want to have the women around? What do you think about all those brothers that belong to Masonic bodies that you can't afford to belong to? What do you think about all those brothers that won't help support those appendant bodies?

What do you think about? Let us know!

 

[FF Sparky]

Reason for this post was about the cross dressing, but I would like input on the rest too

 

[Ashlar2006]

I think everyone should comment and discuss their real feelings about all of these issues. Let's not bring any of this into other threads, but refer other threads back to here if necessary.

So what do you think about Masons that form a motorcylce club and wrap it into Masonry?

It is all in how they conduct themselves when riding as Masons . This is no lie , I know some who want their club to become a 1% club . Masons , mind you .

What do you think about cross dressing in lodge and giving awards for it?

You would have to put that in proper context . If it was for a fundraising project such as Winter stated , just silly fun to raise money for a cause , then I see no problem .


What do you think about those that find it offensive?

If it is in innocent fun , then if they are offended , they need not attend .

What do you think about brothers that promote it?

Again , you would need to put it in proper context before we could make a judgement call .



What do you think about those brothers that want to make it easy to get into Masonry?

They need to get their priorities in proper order .

What do you think about those brothers that want to make it tough to get into Masonry?

I resemble that remark . Freemasonry IS NOT for everyone , and we should not be allowing everyone in because we need to raise our membership numbers . We need to fiercely guard the West Gate .


What do you think about those brothers that don't want to do Masonry as you want Masonry done?

They are entitled to their opinions , but should know that others may not agree with their views . A good example would be my thread concerning our membership numbers .

What do you think about all those brothers that belong to Masonic bodies that you can't afford to belong to?

More power to them ! Let them spend their money .Just so they do not forget about the Craft Lodge .

What do you think about all those brothers that won't help support those appendant bodies?

It's their call , if they find they get all they want and need out of their Craft Lodge , then they should not feel they have to support the appendant bodies .

What do you think about? Let us know!

 

[FF Sparky]

See that is how the questions were asked and doesnt go any further into it. Thats why I was questioning it. But I think as a fund raiser there isnt a problem, as a side degree? Probably not the right thing to do. I agree with the rest of your answers Ashlar.

 

[Winter]

95% of your questions are answered very simply. Behave as a Mason in everything you do and all the other problems solve themselves.

I admit, I want it to be very difficult for a man to get into the Masonry. "What we achieve too easily, we esteem too lightly."

No, I don't want women around Masonic functions. It's my chance to get away and enjoy my Bro-mance with my Brothers and maybe relax.

You're kind of all over the place here Sparkey. If you have specific issues, then by all means discuss them. But I think most all of here could go on a ten page rant about things we would like to improve or see done differently in Masonry.

 

[FF Sparky]

This wasnt my original post, it was a post on Masonic society, and when I came across the cross dressing part, it through me for a loop, so I felt more comfortable to ask about it here first.

 

[BukeyeJackson]

95% of your questions are answered very simply. Behave as a Mason in everything you do and all the other problems solve themselves.

I admit, I want it to be very difficult for a man to get into the Masonry. "What we achieve too easily, we esteem too lightly."

No, I don't want women around Masonic functions. It's my chance to get away and enjoy my Bro-mance with my Brothers and maybe relax.
You're kind of all over the place here Sparkey. If you have specific issues, then by all means discuss them. But I think most all of here could go on a ten page rant about things we would like to improve or see done differently in Masonry.

I knew you liked me. What about a non-married man who later comes out of the closet? We have one such PM and he's a great man that I learn a lot from.

Each question is going to hit each person different. For a Jewish or Muslim Brother who's jurisdiction or Lodge have different ritual workings then a Christian Masons thinking Masonry is all about that will be a skewed view.

As Ashlar said they need not come. If they don't come I beleive Bro. Hodapp said something along the lines of, then they can't ruin the fun or vote actions down, so then they miss out.

Winter said it, if we meet, act, and part properly there should be no issue.

 

[Winter]

I knew you liked me. What about a non-married man who later comes out of the closet? We have one such PM and he's a great man that I learn a lot from. <snip>

One of my best friends who is a Brother is gay. So what. He's one of the most outstanding Freemasons I have had the privilege to know. Stuff like that doesn't bother me.

 

[Gary]

One of my best friends who is a Brother is gay. So what. He's one of the most outstanding Freemasons I have had the privilege to know. Stuff like that doesn't bother me.

Yup. Agreed. I've got no issues with sexuality either. Act like a Mason, and you will find the answers to the initial questions Sparky asked.

 

[removed12612]

Yup. Agreed. I've got no issues with sexuality either. Act like a Mason, and you will find the answers to the initial questions Sparky asked.

This is the part of the discussion that has a very grey area...... because it travels down the path of morality and WE all know that many Brothers have differing opinions on what is considered moral....While I may not have an issue with the way someone acts or sexuality, it doesnt necessarily mean I think they would be a good mason.....

The big question is : If I dont act like someone elses does as a mason, which one is not acting like a Mason?

Masonry leaves so much to personal decisions and it is very hard to "Acts like a Mason"....... because what is considered appropriate or acceptable in one area is taboo in another........ it just isnt sexuality...the same debate can be made about booze or even working in a bar......some areas forbid a male bar owner being a mason....but in some areas Masonic Lodges have bars in them.....

 

[CoachN]

I think everyone should comment and discuss their real feelings about all of these issues. Let's not bring any of this into other threads, but refer other threads back to here if necessary.

So what do you think about Masons that form a motorcylce club and wrap it into Masonry? What do you think about cross dressing in lodge and giving awards for it? What do you think about those that find it offensive? What do you think about brothers that promote it? What do you think about brothers that will only pay $25 a year dues, are failures in their own lives, but run your local Masonry while spending the founders money? What do you think about those brothers that constantly want to raise dues? What do you think about those brothers that want to make it easy to get into Masonry? What do you think about those brothers that want to make it tough to get into Masonry? What do you think about the hard line Christian that thinks that is what Masonry is about? What do you think about the Mason that thinks everyone should get in whether they are Warlocks or have no beleif? What do you think about those brothers that don't want to do Masonry as you want Masonry done? What do you think about that brother sitting next to you in lodge that you wouldn't trust your dog with? What do you think about those brothers that didn't have to memorize as much as you? What do you think about those brothers that just want to make Masonry memory work? What do you think about those brothers that just want to have the women around all the time? What do you think about those brothers that never want to have the women around? What do you think about all those brothers that belong to Masonic bodies that you can't afford to belong to? What do you think about all those brothers that won't help support those appendant bodies?

What do you think about? Let us know!

Anything that distracts Masons from the Purpose of the Blue Lodge, to Build Better Builders, should be forbidden.

 

[Gary]

This is the part of the discussion that has a very grey area...... because it travels down the path of morality and WE all know that many Brothers have differing opinions on what is considered moral....While I may not have an issue with the way someone acts or sexuality, it doesnt necessarily mean I think they would be a good mason.....

The big question is : If I dont act like someone elses does as a mason, which one is not acting like a Mason?

Masonry leaves so much to personal decisions and it is very hard to "Acts like a Mason"....... because what is considered appropriate or acceptable in one area is taboo in another........ it just isnt sexuality...the same debate can be made about booze or even working in a bar......some areas forbid a male bar owner being a mason....but in some areas Masonic Lodges have bars in them.....

Sure, call me out on my choice of words... I counter by saying that you are arguing semantics. The point of my statement is this: Masonic values lead to rational, healthy behavior, and deeper thought.

We all have opinions. Just like we have bodily orifices. Personal opinions aren't what make a Mason. Their adherance to the values taught in the Fraternity does. A Freemason who doesn't follow what he knows is the masonic path is not acting like a Mason.

Your statement sounds as if you think acting as a Mason is something like a political party choice.

 

[removed12612]

Sure, call me out on my choice of words... I counter by saying that you are arguing semantics. The point of my statement is this: Masonic values lead to rational, healthy behavior, and deeper thought.

We all have opinions. Just like we have bodily orifices. Personal opinions aren't what make a Mason. Their adherance to the values taught in the Fraternity does. A Freemason who doesn't follow what he knows is the masonic path is not acting like a Mason.

Your statement sounds as if you think acting as a Mason is something like a political party choice.

I agree with the bold type....the issue begins when you have to decide what is the standard for rational and healthy behavior...... what is the standard to use??? MY GL and your GL dont agree 100% on the standards as to what is rational or healthy so how can we say what is or is not rational or healthy behavior??? The adherence to the values taught is the Fraternity varies from GL to GL..... the Broad general idea is the same but when you get down to the nitty gritty, not everyone in masonry is on the same page or agrees on what is right and wrong.... ie...alcohol within the Lodge..... Your statement about a Freemason that doesnt follow what he knows is the masonic path is not acting like a Mason is a personal statement..... I say that because what give me ,you or anyone else the right to say what is the correct masonic path..... We each have individual paths.... If I am not going down the same path as you am I not acting like a Mason???...

My statement may sound like a political party choice.... but our paths are a choice we make..... do you feel comfortable with saying if you and I have differing opinions on a subject that I am not acting like a mason?...I do not of you.....or anyone else......

 

[Gary]

I agree with the bold type....the issue begins when you have to decide what is the standard for rational and healthy behavior...... what is the standard to use??? MY GL and your GL dont agree 100% on the standards as to what is rational or healthy so how can we say what is or is not rational or healthy behavior??? The adherence to the values taught is the Fraternity varies from GL to GL..... the Broad general idea is the same but when you get down to the nitty gritty, not everyone in masonry is on the same page or agrees on what is right and wrong.... ie...alcohol within the Lodge..... Your statement about a Freemason that doesnt follow what he knows is the masonic path is not acting like a Mason is a personal statement..... I say that because what give me ,you or anyone else the right to say what is the correct masonic path..... We each have individual paths.... If I am not going down the same path as you am I not acting like a Mason???...

My statement may sound like a political party choice.... but our paths are a choice we make..... do you feel comfortable with saying if you and I have differing opinions on a subject that I am not acting like a mason?...I do not of you.....or anyone else......

I think you are confusing Freemasonry, with Masonry. Masonry has nothing to do with politics, religion, or Jurisdictions. Ritual is the map. Not a particular GL's take on what they allow or forbid in their jurisdiction.

So in summary, it matters not to me if alcohol is allowed, or if your GL likes rounded aprons vs. square ones. It's the principals taught in the ritual that binds all jurisdictions as Masons.No matter where you go in the world, those principals are very similar. Not the political side acts that surround it.

 

[removed12612]

NOTE for the weak at heart, meek and timid..... or general population.... Brother Gary and I may conduct spirited, challenging and at time even controversial discussions BUT dont be mistaken...we are GREAT friends and Brothers....... we both feel there is nothing wrong with asking the tough questions of each other.....

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO JOIN IN....THESE ARE NOTE EXCLUSIVE..... we welcome all views...

 

[BukeyeJackson]

NOTE for the weak at heart, meek and timid..... or general population.... Brother Gary and I may conduct spirited, challenging and at time even controversial discussions BUT dont be mistaken...we are GREAT friends and Brothers....... we both feel there is nothing wrong with asking the tough questions of each other.....

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO JOIN IN....THESE ARE NOTE EXCLUSIVE..... we welcome all views...

Most of us would join but when you two get going who really wants to interrupt the Light Heavyweight Brawl at it's best? UFC wishes it had an intellectual division so it could recruit here.

 

[Gary]

NOTE for the weak at heart, meek and timid..... or general population.... Brother Gary and I may conduct spirited, challenging and at time even controversial discussions BUT dont be mistaken...we are GREAT friends and Brothers....... we both feel there is nothing wrong with asking the tough questions of each other.....

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO JOIN IN....THESE ARE NOTE EXCLUSIVE..... we welcome all views...

I couldn't have said that better Brother!

Most of us would join but when you two get going who really wants to interrupt the Light Heavyweight Brawl at it's best? UFC wishes it had an intellectual division so it could recruit here.

Haha! Intellectual discussion? who, us???

You seem like a smart fellow, what's your take on this topic? You've come up with some pretty impressive thoughts as well you know...

Fireman, I'm waiting on your response... What say you?

 

[removed12612]

I think you are confusing Freemasonry, with Masonry. Masonry has nothing to do with politics, religion, or Jurisdictions. Ritual is the map. Not a particular GL's take on what they allow or forbid in their jurisdiction.

So in summary, it matters not to me if alcohol is allowed, or if your GL likes rounded aprons vs. square ones. It's the principals taught in the ritual that binds all jurisdictions as Masons.No matter where you go in the world, those principals are very similar. Not the political side acts that surround it.

Masonry is guided by the map...YES...... but do you think everyone has the exact same map.... I do not, I believe the map may look the same but there will be some slight variations.... the variation is the personal values one... and as a mason we are to stick by our personal values....and have integrity. We are not to waiver on issues such as moral ones.... nor are we to say or suggest that another Brothers are wrong....I believe that that is why the compass is used as a symbol......it opens and closes to fit each one differently...

 

[removed12612]

Most of us would join but when you two get going who really wants to interrupt the Light Heavyweight Brawl at it's best? UFC wishes it had an intellectual division so it could recruit here.

I believe Brother Gary and I would rather it be a Battle Royale...... and not just a mano v. mano.......... Jump on in and join in on the ruckus.....

 

[removed12612]

I couldn't have said that better Brother!



Haha! Intellectual discussion? who, us???

You seem like a smart fellow, what's your take on this topic? You've come up with some pretty impressive thoughts as well you know...

Fireman, I'm waiting on your response... What say you?

Who me????....you know I am Mr. Bashful....