Public register of Freemasons

[Ashlar2006]

JV don't take our light hearted joking around too serious . If he or anyone else wants to have honest and civil communication , then I am all for it . Most of us have heard it all and have been accused of some sinister activity or another in the years we have been Masons so this is how we deal with it seeing how silly the anti's accusations are . And for the most part their minds can not be changed by any amount of factual information they are presented .

 

[RoughAshlar]

And for the most part their minds can not be changed by any amount of factual information they are presented .

I'll go one further and point out that factual information seems to drive them into a rage where they spout nonsensical gibberish. It seems to me that their embarrassment at their own idiocy makes them more abstinent in their absurdity.

 

[jvlighting1]

JV don't take our light hearted joking around too serious . If he or anyone else wants to have honest and civil communication , then I am all for it . Most of us have heard it all and have been accused of some sinister activity or another in the years we have been Masons so this is how we deal with it seeing how silly the anti's accusations are . And for the most part their minds can not be changed by any amount of factual information they are presented .

I understand Ashlar...People like this won’t believe anything you tell them fact or not. Deep down inside they don’t believe themselves. That’s the difference between them and people like us. We as masons and patriots believe in ourselves most of all. Let them continue to search for themselves the truth and maybe someday.... they will find it. I dont mean to get so deep here...but the *hits piling up with these people and I dont think we need to pay it any mind...

 

[Chris From California]

I understand Ashlar...People like this won’t believe anything you tell them fact or not. Deep down inside they don’t believe themselves. That’s the difference between them and people like us. We as masons and patriots believe in ourselves most of all. Let them continue to search for themselves the truth and maybe someday.... they will find it. I dont mean to get so deep here...but the *hits piling up with these people and I dont think we need to pay it any mind...

You know what they just may. In fact that's how I got into Masonry. I used to run a conspiracy website. I was REALLY into the NWO, 911, Area 51, Underground military installations, you name it I read about it. Then I was creating a section on my website dedicated to Freemasons. I read more and more, and started posting everything I could find. I posted that Freemasons where devil worshipers that Freemasons where connected to Skull and Bones and they put George Bush into office. I even talked about how the child ID program was a way for children to get used to being chipped. (For the NWO of course) So in the future they could chip children without them really caring. I could go on and on.

So anyway a Friend at work was admiring the work I did on my site. I told him it would be great to join the Freemasons, if you can't beat em' join em' right. He started laughing and said his uncle was a Freemason. Immediately I said, could I interview him for my site! An exclusive with a Freemason that could really bring in traffic! He said sure, he said in fact why don't you just go to the lodge, they will all talk to you. "Yea right" I said. He told me there was a lodge in my city "What for, what does my city have to do with the NWO?" I asked. He laughed again and said they are in almost every city in America.

Anyway I talked to some brothers at the lodge and nailed those guys with every question in the book. (Keep in mind I'm a very open guy) I still wasn't sure I wanted to join, I pounded and pounded everything I could ask. They answered them all with no problem. They took me around what I used to call the "secret lodge chamber." It was great. Well now I'm a Freemason, and really, I can tell you, they are not trying to take over the world. Half the time we are either painting the lodge, working on some project, having a meeting or socialising at a BBQ. Let me tell you if these guys are taking over the world, they sure do procrastinate.

 

[BG_TRBL]

Chris,
I commend you on actually pursuing the knowledge which is so abundantly available. You have taken it upon yourself to find out what is actual and factual. I am glad to hear that our brethren were able to answer your questions fully. I am also glad that you elected to pursue joining our venerable institution. If only others who speak spitefully of masonry would do the same. I am also glad that you are speaking openly about what actually got you into the fraternity. Thanks for speaking up.

 

[Chris From California]

Your very welcome! Best decision I have ever made! Who would have though I would go from Anti to a Brother. Makes me Smile. Anyway I just got home from work need to get some sleep before the meeting tonight. Who says Mondays aren't great

 

[jvlighting1]

Thanks for sharing Chris. I think we need to take a "no argument" approach to anti's that post in here. Most of them will not listen to what you have to say anyway. Can I get a vote on that? Should we? Let me know your thoughts. Because if we ignore it…we take the higher road. "turn a Cheek"

 

[Ashlar2006]

Thanks for sharing Chris. I think we need to take a "no argument" approach to anti's that post in here. Most of them will not listen to what you have to say anyway. Can I get a vote on that? Should we? Let me know your thoughts. Because if we ignore it…we take the higher road. "turn a Cheek"

JV , I agree with you to an extent . Arguing with an anti is a pointless endeavor . But clearing up the facts for other non-Masons who shoud happen to come on this forum is another matter . Take the original poster of this thread for example , he wants a public register of Freemasons . By trying to make us have to register our names , he is making it look like we are a sinister underground group , hiding in the shadows bent on world domination . I see no need of a registry , nor is there a need for a registry due to the fact that we are so open of our ties to the Fraternity here in the States. We do not keep our membership a secret nor do we try to keep low profiles . Our Lodges are clearly marked and you go to any parking lot in any town and walk through and point to the vehicles owned by Freemasons .

Yes , if an anti continues to argue with us , I say ignore him . But many anti-masons became antis because they only received one side of the story ,from other Mason haters , and took it as the truth without the benefit of both sides of the story . It's a slippery slope , and we have to tread carefully and pick our battles.

 

[jvlighting1]

True…. but there is a difference between “anti masons” and “non-masons” at this site. The point to this website is to communicate with masons and non-mason. Not to argue endlessly with anti masons. It is very easy to pick who is a non-mason seeking answers to questions and anti-masons slamming us just by reading the posts. There should be no battles here to pick. That was my point. I see your point though…sometimes its hard to turn the cheek, very hard. But hard things in life…if they don’t kill us, make us stronger.
Turning a cheek has made me a stronger person.

 

[Ashlar2006]

JV ,I know there is a difference between the anti's and non-masons . That was the whole point of my post and I think you missed it . If an anti posts negative comments and lies on here about Freemasonry , then we should clear up any confussion so a non-mason will get both sides of the story . If we tend to ignore all the anti's posts , then some non-masons may take it that the anti's are telling the truth because of our refusing to answer the questions . Some of their questions and comments need to be answered . I'm not saying that we should argue with them and nowhere did I state that , but only to clear up the lies and misunderstandings for the profanes so they can make an informed opinion and this is not arguing with the anti's . And the only People that should be answering the questions of anti's, IMHO , should be Master Masons only and no one else . We have the complete story . What would think if you were a non-mason and you read all these posts on Masonic forums from anti's telling lies about Freemasonry and the Masons didn't refute their claims ? I know what I would think , Boy that anti-mason must have struck a nerve with the truth because they refuse to answer him .

As for turning the other cheek , if we did that then we wouldn't have great books like "Is It True What They Say About Freemasonry " and great sites like Anti-Masonry: Points of View . Like I stated , many of the lies , half truths , confusion and misunderstandings these anti's tell need to be cleared up .

 

[Ashlar2006]

I would like to add something here . There is a rabid anti-mason that works with my wife . She filled my wife's head with all the typical lies these anti's like to claim . Seeing how I never really talked to deeply about Freemasonry , my wife took it as the truth . Now , was I to continue to allow her to believe what she was told by ignoring it ? To let it cause trouble in our marriage to the point I would have had to demit from the Fraternity ?

 

[Chris From California]

I would like to add something here . There is a rabid anti-mason that works with my wife . She filled my wife's head with all the typical lies these anti's like to claim . Seeing how I never really talked to deeply about Freemasonry , my wife took it as the truth . Now , was I to continue to allow her to believe what she was told by ignoring it ? To let it cause trouble in our marriage to the point I would have had to demit from the Fraternity ?

That's why I try to be as open as I can with my wife. At first it was causing some issues. Someone had told her Masons where Devil worshipers and told her what some of the "objects meant" which where so far from the truth I wanted to hunt the guy down. (More because it worried my wife than him slandering us) So we grabbed some food and I took her to the park and said "ok ask away" and I answered as much as I could without breaking my oath. She has also been reading "Freemasons for Dummies" also. The other day she saw a picture of me in officers regalia she will bust me butt and say "you guys are so cute with your little 'jewels' " and I will sternly but jokingly say back "no it's not cute it's serious man business!"

 

[jvlighting1]

Ashlar521,

I apologize. I was just expressing my view. I am sorry for missing your point. I mean no disrespect. Nor did I mean to challenge it. I was taught by many Master Masons that have been friends and relatives my whole life, not to bother with the ridicules slop that comes out of anti masons uneducated mouths. I choose not to care about what other people think. If confronted and questioned…I simply state what freemasonry means to me and what it does as a fraternity for millions of people across the US. I have been confronted by people before my EA and FC and have been accused of the “oh I heard that freemasons are……………. And …………” and they……………..” and so on. I have simply chosen not to bite. And as for my wife…the investigation committee requested that she be at home when they came by for the meeting. She sat with us the whole time. And all of her questions were answered then and there on the spot by Master Masons. And believe you me….she asked them all….from NWO to “Morals and Dogma”. That’s all….I should have explained myself more. I would of probably kick that guys *ss if he was trash talking to my wife about ANYTHING that had to do with me that was insulting.

 

[Ashlar2006]

No apologies necessary JV , it's all good , I knew you were not disrespecting me . That's what's great about being Masons , we can debate without getting angry with one another , or we should be able to . Like I stated before , I do agree with you in that we shouldn't argue with the anti's , when one-on-one we should just walk away . But I also think that we shouldn't let them tell lies to profanes without a sane and civil rebuttal on our part , that's all . I do not consider giving a non-mason both sides of the story as arguing . When posting an answer to an anti's claim , the post is not aimed at the anti him/herself , but to the non-Masons who may be on here reading the thread . Do you see what I'm getting at ? Some of their claims though are so out outrageous , that we need not answer them .

 

[jvlighting1]

Yes I get your point. Its been so nice to post at this site because it is not full of anti-mason comments and bull. I just dont want this site to become like others..filled with arguments and slander. Your point is well taken brother.

 

[BG_TRBL]

As I agree with both of you it makes things all the more difficult to justify the actions of others. In Pennsylvania, there are "charges" for the degrees, these are written down, and anyone can and is welcome to read them. One of the points I am trying to make is that contained within a charge is a statement to this effect. I will not involve myself in quarls with the insidious, or ignorant about freemasonry who speak illfully or spitefully of our venerable institution.

 

[jvlighting1]

Yes I rember that. I belive it is one of the charges in the EA degree. And that has been my stance and the stance of other fellow masons that are close to me.

 

[Joe Stirling]

Maybe some (definitely not all) of you are genuine ? but we know most Masons know nothing of the inner core of Freemasonry. We are a genuine victims group and the only way forward to to demand a public register. We can't see the problem with this, after all your media portrays that you are a good, charitable fraternity. Let the register decide. If you think this is wrong, then you must have your (ulterior ?) reasons.

Anyway, not here to argue with some of you. What part of anti corruption don't you understand. How can any government body, etc, go forward with plans, strategies or constitutions if we don't tackle corruption ?. Its absolutely pointless and takes us backwards.

Perpetual corruption and no future for your children .................

 

[BG_TRBL]

Maybe some (definitely not all) of you are genuine ? but we know most Masons know nothing of the inner core of Freemasonry. We are a genuine victims group ......

Mr. Stirling,
May I ask you a few questions please. The above statement from you indicates that you are part of a "genuine victims group", first, what are you victims of? What has it affected in your daily life? What hardships have you endured because of the masonic fraternity? What has happened to victimize you? What prompted you to join a "group" against the masonic fraternity instead of actually joining the masonic fraternity, and lastly, is there a register of the individuals in your "genuine victims group"? I ask because if not, why not? If your asking us to register our names so that you know who is "pro-masonry", then we should be able to view a list of those "anti-masonry"..... only makes sense doesn't it?

 

[Ashlar2006]

As I agree with both of you it makes things all the more difficult to justify the actions of others. In Pennsylvania, there are "charges" for the degrees, these are written down, and anyone can and is welcome to read them. One of the points I am trying to make is that contained within a charge is a statement to this effect. I will not involve myself in quarls with the insidious, or ignorant about freemasonry who speak illfully or spitefully of our venerable institution.

We have the same charge BG_TRBL . Yet when a profane repeats something an anti has stated , I think we should have a honest conversation with them(the non-mason) concerning Freemasonry to clear the matter up for them so they have all the facts . My first few posts in this thread were not meant to be arguemenetive but in jest , as I use humor to subdue my passions and keep my temper in check when someone berates or tells absurd lies about our Fraternity .

I too would like to know what hardships this Mr. Stirling has faced due to Freemasonry . I would also like to see this list of those who have been victims of Masonry . There are many anti-masons out there who oppose Freemasonry for no greater reason than a way to make money .