Specifics behind a lack of amity.

[removed12612]

Who is taking a side . Where did I say Ohio did something wrong ? This is merely how it looks from the outside to some . But if he meets their requirements , then so be it , he meets their requirements .

He is more than welcome to sit in lodge with me as he is in good standing with Ohio all the rest is between Ohio and WV . Where do you get I would not welcome him into my lodge

Simmer down , I can care less what they do and their little cat fight , it is all silly to me .

Brother...please do accept my apology even though my use of "you" was only a general term.......I didnt mean you as in Ashlar....

I too dont have a dog in the fight and as long as the GL here didnt specifically say he was not allowed....well as long as he has a valid dues card, he is welcome too.....

I respectfully deny getting remotely hot on anything...so no real need for me to simmer down..... just pointing out another way to look at things...

 

[Ashlar2006]

Brother...please do accept my apology even though my use of "you" was only a general term.......I didnt mean you as in Ashlar....

I too dont have a dog in the fight and as long as the GL here didnt specifically say he was not allowed....well as long as he has a valid dues card, he is welcome too.....

I respectfully deny getting remotely hot on anything...so no real need for me to simmer down..... just pointing out another way to look at things...

Not a problem . Things like this stirs up emotions . I do not have a dog in this fight . I have seen Ohio and WV brothers together here in my state getting along splendidly with no ill feelings toward one another . The way many look at it , this is between the gold collars .

 

[removed12612]

Not a problem . Things like this stirs up emotions . I do not have a dog in this fight . I have seen Ohio and WV brothers together here in my state getting along splendidly with no ill feelings toward one another . The way many look at it , this is between the gold collars .

YUP.....now can I get a hug from ya!!!....

 

[BukeyeJackson]

Who are we to judge if the GL of OH acted improperly? That's exactly where the problem lies. Pick a side? Either way you lose and there is friction.

Those that choose not to accept this man as a brother, aren't necessarily taking sides, they are being neutral and not getting involved.

Besides, when this all started, how exactly did the exchange of this Brother take place? did he run to the other jurisdiction and get promptly accepted? or was there some sort of communication between the two GL's?

As I understand it he had moved to Ohio, just across the river from WV, prior to this. He was still a judge in WV and a Mason.

 

[Ashlar2006]

YUP.....now can I get a hug from ya!!!....

Sure can , but NO kiss !!! My wife may get jealous .

 

[removed12612]

Who are we to judge if the GL of OH acted improperly? That's exactly where the problem lies. Pick a side? Either way you lose and there is friction.

Those that choose not to accept this man as a brother, aren't necessarily taking sides, they are being neutral and not getting involved.

Besides, when this all started, how exactly did the exchange of this Brother take place? did he run to the other jurisdiction and get promptly accepted? or was there some sort of communication between the two GL's?

Bro Gary...since I do consider you a wise thinking man...let me pose this to you ( base this off the bold in your comments)

Could that not be the same argument a Brother could say regarding PHA or any other hot button topics in masonry......lets say Brother XYZ refuses to accept a PHA Brother as such when his GL has done so....is he being neutral for not accepting him....neutrality can be a statement unto itself...

PS..not saying you are wrong...just working on my point...counter-point abilities

 

[removed12612]

Sure can , but NO kiss !!! My wife may get jealous .

I can understand....I am rather good looking

 

[Gary]

Bro Gary...since I do consider you a wise thinking man...let me pose this to you ( base this off the bold in your comments)

Could that not be the same argument a Brother could say regarding PHA or any other hot button topics in masonry......lets say Brother XYZ refuses to accept a PHA Brother as such when his GL has done so....is he being neutral for not accepting him....neutrality can be a statement unto itself...

PS..not saying you are wrong...just working on my point...counter-point abilities

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice". Ayn Rand

Like Ashlar said, this issue is between the "gold collars".

In the end, individual Lodges can't make those decisions and be within the regulations of their governing jurisdictions. While I may have an opinion about PHA or this particular issue, I am bound by the decisions my GL makes. I either abide by it, or face the penalty.

Sometimes it's better to sacrifice one for the good of the whole (harmony between jurisdictions).

I agree. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[removed12612]

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice". Ayn Rand

Like Ashlar said, this issue is between the "gold collars".

In the end, individual Lodges can't make those decisions and be within the regulations of their governing jurisdictions. While I may have an opinion about PHA or this particular issue, I am bound by the decisions my GL makes. I either abide by it, or face the penalty.

Sometimes it's better to sacrifice one for the good of the whole (harmony between jurisdictions).

I agree. Two wrongs don't make a right.

TRUE....

I doubt the rank and file care....... in the end, if it doesnt effect us, it really is not an issue for us....

On a side note.... I believe I was a lawyer in a previous life...

PS..are u sure Neil Peart didnt come up with that saying???

 

[Gary]

Peart got it from Ayn Rand. It's from one of her books. I think it was Atlas Shrugged or Anthem. I can't remember at the moment.

I think Brothers do care, they are just helpless to do much about it.

 

[removed12612]

I agree they care...about each other...not the politics

 

[Gary]

Yup. My thoughts exactly.

 

[edwmax]

It certainly is a perspective but saying OH "thumbed their nose" at WV as truth or fact is passing judgement and a bit presumptuous isnt it?

Yes, my statement was harsh, but what else would the situation be When the GL of Ohio had to know recognition would be withdrawn when they accept a 'high profile' suspend/expelled Mason into their GL/Lodge. They knowing violated agreements of recognition between GLs regarding such. ... I have read Bro, Haas as a Member in an Ohio Lodge before he was suspended in WV; ... suspended in one is supposed to be suspend in BOTH.

Anyway I wasn't passing judgment on the actions of Bro Haas, the GL of Ohio or the GL of WV; only explaining the question of the OP.

 

[removed12612]

Its ALL good.....ultimately, its between the "Gold Collars".......

 

[Gary]

Its ALL good.....ultimately, its between the "Gold Collars".......

Ahhh...he gets it now...

 

[removed12612]

Ahhh...he gets it now...

Oh I had it all the time..... but how much fun would it be if we didnt ponder different angles of the same picture...... you just might find something new looking at it in a different way....

If we all agreed on everything and never considered other possibilities, wouldnt it be a boring world

 

[BukeyeJackson]

Ok So since this is been running amuck in my head. If Bro. Gary came up to Ohio and sat in a stated meeting AND a PHA Brother was in attendance, how would this situation proceed?.... interchange a Mason who is recognized by WV and sits in GA with a OH Mason?

 

[Gary]

I would have to leave if I knew there was a PHA in the Lodge room. I would be brought up on charges in my own jurisdiction if it was found out that I did otherwise.

 

[edwmax]

Ok So since this is been running amuck in my head. If Bro. Gary came up to Ohio and sat in a stated meeting AND a PHA Brother was in attendance, how would this situation proceed?.... interchange a Mason who is recognized by WV and sits in GA with a OH Mason?

AAH! ... I asked this question to my Grand Secretary 3 years ago. He asked me "How would I know?" Then walked off. ....

I think it is 10 GLs now that do not recognize PHA. For these Members, if visiting a Lodge and knew this to be a fact; then he is OB'd to leave the Lodge. .... However, the hint my Grand Secretary gave above is: "Don't ask; and Don't tell!" Remember there is a part of the OB that states "I knowing them to be such" ... I think this is the prevailing attitude of the remaining 10 GLs. .... Should a Member start talking (bragging) about sitting in a Lodge with a PHA Masons or other Clandestine Masons when the Lodge visited is recognized; and another GL MM prefer Charges, a trial maybe unavoidable. In most GLs even the Grand Master can not over-rule GL Code.

 

[edwmax]

.... The Ohio vs WV situation where their members sit in a mutually recognized Lodge, is of less a problem. ... I believe majority of the members of the 2 GLs are not in full agreement of the actions of their GLs; so there would be a less of a problem of another GL Member preferring charges. The Ohio & WV is more of a family spat. They did recognize each other and will again in the future. ... As stated above 'this is between Gold Collars"