Specifics behind a lack of amity.

chodapp

New Member
PGM Haas was NOT expelled over the so-called Wheeling Reforms.

His proposed legislation at the annual communication was narrowly passed, not as individual votes, but as one massive item, which is presumably (I haven't read it) in violation of WV's constitution. It certainly would be in Indiana, as each piece of legislation changed different portions of their laws. The next incoming GM nullified the vote by edict, proclaiming it improper. Frank Haas is a friend, but he's also a judge, and should have never allowed what he knew was an improper voting procedure. Still, that was not the stated reason why he was expelled a little over a year later.

In the wake of the edict that cancelled the vote, Frank was not shy about complaining to others about his disappointment. Then, an anonymous website called MasonicCrusade appeared (the Internet will kill us all), in which several unidentified Masons took their complaints very public. Certain documents were released on the website, and the NEXT Grand Master, Charles Montgomery, determined that it was Haas who released them. Montgomery believed Haas was the chief organizer of MasonicCrusade. There were also back room rumblings that Frank was overtly stirring up support for running for GM again. When Frank was confronted by Montgomery in open lodge, he denied the GM's accusations. Montgomery accused Haas of lying to him in lodge, and that's when he was expelled.

Those are the basics.

To answer another point that was asked here concerning visiting a lodge that is in amity with a GL your own home GL is not, most grand lodges tend to side with the "when in Rome" guideline: namely, it's not your job as a visitor to poll everyone in the room to make sure they are not considered clandestine in your own jurisdiction. You are a guest, and should behave as one. It's not incumbent on you to show up armed with a copy of Pantagraph's List of Lodges Masonic and examine dues cards of others. However, the "When In Rome" guideline is not official anywhere I know of, and there are a few hardline GMs and/or GLs that can make it your problem if they choose to do so.

But, for instance, assume you are from a jurisdiction that does not recognize the PHA GL in your state, and you visit a lodge that does. If a black Brother enters the room, do you automatically assume he is a Prince Hall Mason; or assume he is a mainstream member; or demand to know from him or from the sitting Master what his affiliation is; or leave because you don't want to take the chance of breaking your own GL's rules? Depending on YOUR grand lodge, and your own beliefs, any of those choices may be the correct one, according to Masonic law.

Note that I didn't say the best one.

And eliminating the race question from the situation, if you scan the room, how do you know if another visiting brother might hold membership in one of the many clandestine French or Mexican GLs that your GL is not in amity with? Again, is it your job to examine all visitors yourself?
 
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Gary

Guest
This story sure has a lot of twists and turns to it.

The when in Rome policy seems logical, but how do you know how your Grand Lodge will react? Seems like a roll of the dice to me.
 

FamilyMan

Fidelis ad Mortem
I just hope, in vain perhaps, that sometime before I have a son old enough to petition, the GL of WV will be in amity with the GL of OH.

I have another question. Would a dual member, who holds dues cards from two different GLs, one that is amity with WV and the other from OH, would he be able to visit a lodge in WV? I have no experience with dual memberships, so perhaps my question is elementary...

Light? Light? Anyone have some light?
 

BukeyeJackson

ViMH Advisory Board
I just hope, in vain perhaps, that sometime before I have a son old enough to petition, the GL of WV will be in amity with the GL of OH.

I have another question. Would a dual member, who holds dues cards from two different GLs, one that is amity with WV and the other from OH, would he be able to visit a lodge in WV? I have no experience with dual memberships, so perhaps my question is elementary...

Light? Light? Anyone have some light?
That is also what I wanted to head towards. When I have traveled and met a few Masons it was in the South and at first they didn't believe that I was MS until we got to talk about that fact itself.
I would be interested in becoming a plural member in OH. I wouldn't, however, want this to interfere with my intermingling of the Brothers I can meet. Since when I show I kinda look a bit hispanic and black and have had this issue at home too I wouldn't know what to do.
 

edwmax

Active Member
If you was not referring to the quote in post #45, I do apologize..... you just said you didnt understand the quote in #45.....I was just trying to make a clarification if you was referring to my post.... no harm...no foul.
Sorry, I typed 45 when I should have type 49. Guess my glasses needs cleaning again. The type on this forum is a bit small
 

edwmax

Active Member
I just hope, in vain perhaps, that sometime before I have a son old enough to petition, the GL of WV will be in amity with the GL of OH.

I have another question. Would a dual member, who holds dues cards from two different GLs, one that is amity with WV and the other from OH, would he be able to visit a lodge in WV? I have no experience with dual memberships, so perhaps my question is elementary...

Light? Light? Anyone have some light?
Your question indicate your have dual membership in GLs other than Ohio or WV. You can visit either one or both GL as long as BOTH of your GLs has recognition. But, if one of your GLs do not recognize a GL, you can not visit; it does not matter if your other GL of which you are a member does have recognition. You still can not visit. You will be subject to charges by the GL that does not have recognition and suspension in one GL means suspension from membership in all GLs you are a member of.
 

Ashlar2006

Masonic Mafia
This story sure has a lot of twists and turns to it.
This is why I was hesitant of posting at all and regret posting anything . It is like a bad soap opera , and most of us do not have all the information needed to form any judgments . But that is the way of the internet , a man is brought up on charges and Masons from all over jump on his bandwagon without all the facts (or ignoring the facts) and start Grand Lodge bashing .

Who was right and who is wrong ? I do not know , all I do know is that I have my own sandbox to play in and I will stay out of theirs .
 

edwmax

Active Member
This is why I was hesitant of posting at all and regret posting anything . It is like a bad soap opera , and most of us do not have all the information needed to form any judgments . But that is the way of the internet , a man is brought up on charges and Masons from all over jump on his bandwagon without all the facts (or ignoring the facts) and start Grand Lodge bashing .

Who was right and who is wrong ? I do not know , all I do know is that I have my own sandbox to play in and I will stay out of theirs .
My point exactly, ... there looks to be wrong on both sides; and not everything is being told ... it's their problem, let them deal with it!!!!
 
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Gary

Guest
Those that want to discuss these kinds of topics are free to do so. They just need to mind their tongue when it comes to bashing any jurisdiction. That's a quick way to get a masonic trial and your dues card yanked.

This discussion went much better on this forum than what I've read on others. Well, with the exception of our beloved Golden Spoon award recipient Fireman... ;) :p
 

Ashlar2006

Masonic Mafia
Ah , Brother Fireman is merely passionate , that's all . It was all worked out with a hugs (but no kisses) . Where would be without him ?
 
Those that want to discuss these kinds of topics are free to do so. They just need to mind their tongue when it comes to bashing any jurisdiction. That's a quick way to get a masonic trial and your dues card yanked.

This discussion went much better on this forum than what I've read on others. Well, with the exception of our beloved Golden Spoon award recipient Fireman... ;) :p
Dont be a hater....... just because I had a pretty good understanding of what went down:p:D .....WAY before others....;)
 
Ah , Brother Fireman is merely passionate , that's all . It was all worked out with a hugs (but no kisses) . Where would be without him ?
LOST!!!!!:D...... and all drinking out of the same cup of Kool-Aid:eek:

Besides, someone has to ask the tough questions........thats how you keep the productive thought process going.....
 
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Gary

Guest
Dont be a hater....... just because I had a pretty good understanding of what went down:p:D .....WAY before others....;)
No hate here my Brother. I was just giving you a little jab because of the way you present things sometimes. It often sets the stage for misunderstanding of your position. It occasionally comes off as a little spurious. I know that is not your intention. It's just my view. I'm not slamming you or anything.

I will say that it generally makes for good discussion though, albeit occasionally heated.
 
No hate here my Brother. I was just giving you a little jab because of the way you present things sometimes. It often sets the stage for misunderstanding of your position. It occasionally comes off as a little spurious. I know that is not your intention. It's just my view. I'm not slamming you or anything.

I will say that it generally makes for good discussion though, albeit occasionally heated.
OK...I will give ya this one....for my use of the word "You" and a Brother took it as a refrence to him.....

I was j/k about the hate....I understand....... my position was very well stated....I never though OH was wrong......but we wont rehash....

Maybe I should change my name to Shepherd........ ;)
 
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Gary

Guest
OK...I will give ya this one....for my use of the word "You" and a Brother took it as a refrence to him.....

I was j/k about the hate....I understand....... my position was very well stated....I never though OH was wrong......but we wont rehash....

Maybe I should change my name to Shepherd........ ;)
I understand completely. I knew you were joking about the being a hater quip.

You are certainly one of the more passionate Masons I've had the pleasure to converse with. You certainly aren't afraid to jump into a sensitive topic with both feet! I admire that.
 

Winter

I've been here before
I understand completely. I knew you were joking about the being a hater quip.

You are certainly one of the more passionate Masons I've had the pleasure to converse with. You certainly aren't afraid to jump into a sensitive topic with both feet! I admire that.
He jumps into the sensitive topics with both feet, I use a club! LOL

On to the topic, Can anyone who is closer to the situation tell us if there has been any sort of attempts at reconciliation?
 
He jumps into the sensitive topics with both feet, I use a club! LOL

On to the topic, Can anyone who is closer to the situation tell us if there has been any sort of attempts at reconciliation?
Knowing Masons in both states and a good Brother very well connected in OH, nothing "publicly" has been settled.......I am sure there may very well be some behind the scenes negotiations going on
 
I understand completely. I knew you were joking about the being a hater quip.

You are certainly one of the more passionate Masons I've had the pleasure to converse with. You certainly aren't afraid to jump into a sensitive topic with both feet! I admire that.
THANK YOU!!!!..... no I dont have a fear of a good discussion;)......

Might I add......Steel sharpens Steel......sometimes a good discussion just might smooth some of the rough edges off our ashlars....(Thought about this and liked it...)
 
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