Why? Seriously.
MM Topic FM & Religion
- Thread starter removed12612
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Bob Franks
Past District Deputy Grand Lecturer
if all religious connections were removed?
"...Speculative Masonry...It is so far interwoven with religion, as to lay us under obligation to pay that rational homage to deity, which at once constitutes our duty and our happiness. It leads the contemplative Mason to view with reverence and admiration the glorious works of creation, and inspires him with the most exalted ideas of the perfection of his Divine Creator."
North Carolina Lodge Manual, Charles F. Bahnson, 1892, p43 [Lecture of the Fellow Craft's Degree]
S&F
I don't believe that we could still call it Masonry.
"...Speculative Masonry...It is so far interwoven with religion, as to lay us under obligation to pay that rational homage to deity, which at once constitutes our duty and our happiness. It leads the contemplative Mason to view with reverence and admiration the glorious works of creation, and inspires him with the most exalted ideas of the perfection of his Divine Creator."
North Carolina Lodge Manual, Charles F. Bahnson, 1892, p43 [Lecture of the Fellow Craft's Degree]
S&F
Bob Franks
Past District Deputy Grand Lecturer
if all religious connections were removed?
Deism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hindu, Zoroastrian...WHO CARES?
As long as a man can profess a belief in deity, his obligation may be considered binding.
S&F
Deism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hindu, Zoroastrian...WHO CARES?
As long as a man can profess a belief in deity, his obligation may be considered binding.
S&F
G
Gary
Guest
You do realize that they don't bathe, and that is their deoderant...LOLLOL.. thankfully no.... but I did date this deadhead chick
CoachN
Builder Builder
Have you taken the time to understand my prospective? Do you understand how I view spirituality? I have no clue how you view it, but I suspect it's not how I view it.
If I were to provide to you a personal spiritual experience that you have had in your life, prior to your understanding any symbol whatsoever, would that validate what I claim?
I have no clue as to why you keep bringing these rock bands up? Would you please explain why?
removed12612
Guest
Seriously? Why would you question my belief without even offering your for discussion.....
Brother I mean no disrespect but it is rather rude and arrogant to question someone else but exclude your thoughts... but willing offer criticismremoved12612
Guest
1)Yes I have taken time to consider your perspective and I take it that we view spirituality different....which is OK...1)Have you taken the time to understand my prospective? Do you understand how I view spirituality? I have no clue how you view it, but I suspect it's not how I view it.
2)If I were to provide to you a personal spiritual experience that you have had in your life, prior to your understanding any symbol whatsoever, would that validate what I claim?
3)I have no clue as to why you keep bringing these rock bands up? Would you please explain why?
2) No...because to me...spirituality comes from religion.... which again is ok that we view it different.
3)Humor....poking fun at people that claim the Dead or the Doors were a spiritual experience......
removed12612
Guest
YES very aware of that fact...... and several do not shave their armpits or legs either......
CoachN
Builder Builder
Yet you do not take the time to understand.
How do you define "spirituality?" Please give an example that validates/communicates/reflects this.
thanks.
removed12612
Guest
1) I do understand as much as I can.....do you understand my POV?1)Yet you do not take the time to understand.
2)How do you define "spirituality?" Please give an example that validates/communicates/reflects this.
3)thanks.
2) The summer of 2010 was the first time I had been to my Mothers grave in my life, she passed away when I was 6 y/o..... if it had not been for my religious beliefs I would have lead my life as an angry person...... going to her grave was spiritual for me because the Good Lord brought me to a happier place......had I not had my religion....I never would have felt that...
3) My pleasure....
CoachN
Builder Builder
No, this is why I am taking the time to ask (as in #2.) It's important for me to understand.
Thank you. That gives me a better understanding of what spiritual is for you. Would you please explain "how" that is spiritual?
removed12612
Guest
It was a moment in which the Good Lord set his hand of comfort upon me....
Would you give me an example to help me understand "spiritual" from your POV
CoachN
Builder Builder
removed12612
Guest
No problemo..... sleep well...........Thanks Brother.
Yes. Tomorrow morning. I'm getting ready to hit the sack
I wasn't questioning your belief and it wasn't intended to be rude.Seriously? Why would you question my belief without even offering your for discussion.....
I'm sorry you took it that way.
Duncan1574
Lodge Chaplain & arms dealer
My 2Cents on spirituality:
Strip away the pomp and circumstance, the words written or spoken, the rituals of organized religion, all the man-made interfaces to Deity, that distilled essence that lives on in our core (call it our 'soul'), that is spirituality. It is that 'thing' that sustains us when all else has failed us, when the world is spinning out of control, when the physical stuff that we draw comfort from has been taken away. The rock in that we stand upon when the flood is foremost in our minds.
That is spirituality.
2Cents off
Deity is a personal. How each of us interface with It is also personal, even 2 people who have stood side by side in the same place of worship forever, done the same rituals, experienced the same events, each of them has a unique view of Deity. I have related this to people as: our views of Deity are like an individual facet on an jewel/gem of infinite facets, we each see Deity through out filters of experience, once we stand before Deity in reality we will all say 'Wow, I was right' AND 'Wow, I was wrong' AND just 'WOW!'.
Strip away the pomp and circumstance, the words written or spoken, the rituals of organized religion, all the man-made interfaces to Deity, that distilled essence that lives on in our core (call it our 'soul'), that is spirituality. It is that 'thing' that sustains us when all else has failed us, when the world is spinning out of control, when the physical stuff that we draw comfort from has been taken away. The rock in that we stand upon when the flood is foremost in our minds.
That is spirituality.
2Cents off
Deity is a personal. How each of us interface with It is also personal, even 2 people who have stood side by side in the same place of worship forever, done the same rituals, experienced the same events, each of them has a unique view of Deity. I have related this to people as: our views of Deity are like an individual facet on an jewel/gem of infinite facets, we each see Deity through out filters of experience, once we stand before Deity in reality we will all say 'Wow, I was right' AND 'Wow, I was wrong' AND just 'WOW!'.
BG_TRBL
Watcher of the posts
I'm just poking my nose in and offering something for consideration. I am not professing right or wrong, good or bad, nor am I professing a true in depth knowledge or understanding of Religion or spirituality. I just have a couple points that I personally associate with each.
Religion:
1. Religion uses the outward visable tennets viewed by others, eg. attending church in an organized meeting place (regardless of religion).
2. Being joined in marriage at a church or other accepted venue led by an individual of that faith.
3. Funeral service conducted and led by an individual of said faith.
Spirituality:
1. The inward feeling and strife which occur while attending a "religious" service. The attempt to become connected with the teaching being offered by said religion.
2. The feeling encountered, thoughts, fears, exuberation and expectations of the joining of two individuals to me would be spiritual journey, and not a religious experience.
3. Attending a funeral service, the internal turmoil and realization of our own mortal bounds in this life. Justification of why, acceptance of what, and the grieving process is all a spiritual journey, and not a religious experience to me.
OK, with that all being said, I offer this one extra point. When my children were born, I in my mind went through both Religious and Spiritual journey's. Religious, that I had attended church, baptism of my children, and taking them to church. Now the spiritual portion of this, when my first child was born, I was overwhelmed with emotion, similar to #2 above, with the addition of this, within 2 days of her birth, it was discovered that she had a congenital heart defect, and that it was possible that she would need surgery. This caused a lot of spiritual experiences with me, prayers, thoughts, hopes and fears were expressed inwardly and outwardly for blessings to be bestowed upon my family, and that things would work out and would save my child from this hardship. Very few people actually know about this stage in my life, and as I post it here, I realize I am doing this to emphasize my points. Everything has since worked out with my daughter, and the hole that was located in ventricular septum has closed to the point it should never need surgery. When my son was born, we were blessed, and he was completely healthy.
Religion and Spirituality are intertwined and is sometimes hard to separate. This was all my feeble attempt to explain my understanding of it all.
S&F
Religion:
1. Religion uses the outward visable tennets viewed by others, eg. attending church in an organized meeting place (regardless of religion).
2. Being joined in marriage at a church or other accepted venue led by an individual of that faith.
3. Funeral service conducted and led by an individual of said faith.
Spirituality:
1. The inward feeling and strife which occur while attending a "religious" service. The attempt to become connected with the teaching being offered by said religion.
2. The feeling encountered, thoughts, fears, exuberation and expectations of the joining of two individuals to me would be spiritual journey, and not a religious experience.
3. Attending a funeral service, the internal turmoil and realization of our own mortal bounds in this life. Justification of why, acceptance of what, and the grieving process is all a spiritual journey, and not a religious experience to me.
OK, with that all being said, I offer this one extra point. When my children were born, I in my mind went through both Religious and Spiritual journey's. Religious, that I had attended church, baptism of my children, and taking them to church. Now the spiritual portion of this, when my first child was born, I was overwhelmed with emotion, similar to #2 above, with the addition of this, within 2 days of her birth, it was discovered that she had a congenital heart defect, and that it was possible that she would need surgery. This caused a lot of spiritual experiences with me, prayers, thoughts, hopes and fears were expressed inwardly and outwardly for blessings to be bestowed upon my family, and that things would work out and would save my child from this hardship. Very few people actually know about this stage in my life, and as I post it here, I realize I am doing this to emphasize my points. Everything has since worked out with my daughter, and the hole that was located in ventricular septum has closed to the point it should never need surgery. When my son was born, we were blessed, and he was completely healthy.
Religion and Spirituality are intertwined and is sometimes hard to separate. This was all my feeble attempt to explain my understanding of it all.
S&F
CoachN
Builder Builder
removed12612
Guest
Bro.... the bold part is a great way to describe spirituality but to me ( I only speak for myself) is acquired in my religious beliefs.... with my faith in God, I wouldnt experience any of what you have described. To me....I cant removed God and religion and still experience spirituality.
removed12612
Guest
How else could I take it?
When all you post is a single word question (Why?) and follow it up with a (Seriously) it sure looks like you are questioning or making a rude commentary....I find if a person is sharing something personal and another comes along and asks Why?" and follow it up with "Seriously" to be rather rude especially when that person doesn't bother to to include anything personal about himself.
I do understand that this is a public forum and one can post as they wish..... but I also reserve the right to express my dislike when anyone wishes to offer commentary towards me.