PatrickWilliams
I could tell you ...
Dang, I wish I could get that action rolling in Racine!
FreeMasonry Vs. Princehall Masonry
- Thread starter Derric
- Start date
TrowelTalk
New Member
In Maryland both groups have signed a mutual recognition agreement a few years ago. Last Thursday night my Lodge hosted the second annual meeting (at a Lodge) of both Grand Lodges, they meet regularly to confer on topics and build mutual friendships.
To my knowledge, they are no more different in their work than say one jurisdiction that is "Ancient, Free and Accepted" vs. another that is "Free and Accepted" masons, i.e., Maryland and California as an example.
To my knowledge, they are no more different in their work than say one jurisdiction that is "Ancient, Free and Accepted" vs. another that is "Free and Accepted" masons, i.e., Maryland and California as an example.
Windrider
Plus-sized tuxedo model
The Grand Lodge of Masons in Massachusetts has F&AM as well as AF&AM Lodges. Ancient York, my Blue Lodge, is AF&AM while Philanthropic Lodge of Marblehead is F&AM. Both Lodges are under the jurisdiction of GLMM.
There's plenty of brotherly rivalry, but no ill will
This topic has many facets to it that I could write a book about my feelings concerning Prince Hall Brothers. I have attended many Prince Hall Lodges and have invited and received several Prince Hall Lodges in my own lodge. Needless to say, I have been proud to stand next to them and call them brothers. Their ritual work is spectacular too. At one point during a lodge meeting at Prince Hall #24, located in Detroit, MI at 3500 Mcdougal, an elderly Prince Hall brother was in tears and could only say , "that he never thought that a caucasion man would ever have taken a seat in his lodge!"
Depending on the age and condition of a lodges original charter, a dispensation can be granted to use an approved and certified copy for the purpose of conducting business.
My lodge charter is 210 years old. We keep the original charter in a safe deposit box at a bank, with permission of the Grand Lodge of Massachusetts of course.
companion3X3
New Member
That is not true at all! In fact we are one of the only ones that can trace our charter back to the GLOE!!! This is what confuses people,please get your facts straight!!!!
The main reason for the confusion (espically in the south) is race plain and simple. Check your history!!!!
The main reason for the confusion (espically in the south) is race plain and simple. Check your history!!!!
companion3X3
New Member
So Mote it Be!!!!!!!!!!!
Ashlar2006
Masonic Mafia
We can leave out the "South" bashing right now . I have said it once and I will say it again , These problems come from both sides, so let's quit placing all the blame on one side . I can point you to other Masonic forums with southern Masons from PHA jurisdictions who have admitted time and again that they have heard many , many racial remarks aimed at white Masons in their jurisdictions .
There are a bad apples from both jurisdictions so let's quit making this a "those mean ol' racist Mainstream Masons in the South " type of thing . I am not saying this because I am a Southern man/Mason . I am saying this because I will not have all of us lumped together by the acts and attitudes of a few .
There are a bad apples from both jurisdictions so let's quit making this a "those mean ol' racist Mainstream Masons in the South " type of thing . I am not saying this because I am a Southern man/Mason . I am saying this because I will not have all of us lumped together by the acts and attitudes of a few .
Winter
I've been here before
Relax Brother,
As Aslar says, it isn't that cut and dried. Assigning fault at this late stage would be fruitless. Rather, if we ALL act as Masons maybe we can discuss the matter in a manner befitting our status as Masons.
Azpir8king
Member
I Would LOVE to see BOTH Fraternal organizations come together as one...but it would be like merging Ford and GM. Both great products, but who would be in charge? Which Board of Directors stays? Which go? What contracts stay in place? What Dealerships? Combine? Fold? Move to new location? ETC!!! I am sure a few progressive GL's and PHA have wrestled with and breached these subjects, so its old hat. It would boggle the mind.
Someday a group of us will have the fortitude and vision to see it through. For those that are old enough...remember seeing the "wall" come down? I was born in the cold war and the IRON curtain was always there. It would never change....then I watched the wall come down. It should give us all a little bit of hope. Times change and people see the light a little better each day.
Someday a group of us will have the fortitude and vision to see it through. For those that are old enough...remember seeing the "wall" come down? I was born in the cold war and the IRON curtain was always there. It would never change....then I watched the wall come down. It should give us all a little bit of hope. Times change and people see the light a little better each day.
Ashlar2006
Masonic Mafia
As in the homosexual thread , those who wish to label an entire group of people as racist for where they reside need to take a look at themselves in the mirror because they are no better than those they are accusing of bigotry .
As time marches on , where do those who like to make claims that we are all racist down here in the South think it is going to get them . NOWHERE . I can tell you this , I am not now , nor have I ever been racist . But , everytime I hear comments as were posted on here earlier pushes me farther and farther away from the recognition issue . By pointing an accusatory finger at me , which is what one is doing by lumping us all in together , does nothing but make the division between us wider . I am so very tired of this song and dance , and because of claims I am racist for where I live I am being pushed to the point that , to be honest , I will no longer care about recognition . Because nothing will change afterwards .
No one can guilt us into it , it will happen all in due time .
As time marches on , where do those who like to make claims that we are all racist down here in the South think it is going to get them . NOWHERE . I can tell you this , I am not now , nor have I ever been racist . But , everytime I hear comments as were posted on here earlier pushes me farther and farther away from the recognition issue . By pointing an accusatory finger at me , which is what one is doing by lumping us all in together , does nothing but make the division between us wider . I am so very tired of this song and dance , and because of claims I am racist for where I live I am being pushed to the point that , to be honest , I will no longer care about recognition . Because nothing will change afterwards .
No one can guilt us into it , it will happen all in due time .
PatrickWilliams
I could tell you ...
Indeed, you are right. It's pretty inevitable. And, once again, only the GL of KY knows what's best for Masons in KY.
I have read the entire thread, and I thought I would chime in with something I had recently read. For those that have read The Lost Symbol, by Dan Brown, you should remember this passage, as it is truly enlightening:
"In this age when different cultures are killing each other over whose definition of God is better, one could say the Masonic tradition of TOLERANCE and OPEN-MINDEDNESS is commendable."..."Moreover, Masonry is open to men of all races, colors, and creeds, and provides a spiritual fraternity that does not discriminate in any way."
We are ever moving forward in our unification. Change does not happen quickly, and our tolerance will prove to be the deciding factor. We are all GOOD MEN, trying to be BETTER MEN.
The stigma that there are TWO sides to Masonry separated by colors is foolish. I am mixed (Black Father and White Mother) I look white. I was Raised PHA. At no time did I feel like I didn't belong because of the color of my skin. I don't want believe that there are lodges that refuse a GOOD MAN simply because of the color of his skin. We are more open-minded than that. However, I would be a fool to think it doesn't happen. There are older men, brought up in a time when that thinking was acceptable. I don't fault them for it, and nor will I try to impose my beliefs on them. We the "younger" (and I use that term loosely ) generation of Freemasons, will be charged with upholding our traditions and continuing to make GOOD MEN into BETTER MEN. If we continue to believe that there are TWO sides to Masonry simply based on the color of man's skin, we have done nothing to improve ourselves or our Brothers.
Just my thoughts. I do not post this with the intention of offending any Brother.
Fraternally,
Brother Dirk
"In this age when different cultures are killing each other over whose definition of God is better, one could say the Masonic tradition of TOLERANCE and OPEN-MINDEDNESS is commendable."..."Moreover, Masonry is open to men of all races, colors, and creeds, and provides a spiritual fraternity that does not discriminate in any way."
We are ever moving forward in our unification. Change does not happen quickly, and our tolerance will prove to be the deciding factor. We are all GOOD MEN, trying to be BETTER MEN.
The stigma that there are TWO sides to Masonry separated by colors is foolish. I am mixed (Black Father and White Mother) I look white. I was Raised PHA. At no time did I feel like I didn't belong because of the color of my skin. I don't want believe that there are lodges that refuse a GOOD MAN simply because of the color of his skin. We are more open-minded than that. However, I would be a fool to think it doesn't happen. There are older men, brought up in a time when that thinking was acceptable. I don't fault them for it, and nor will I try to impose my beliefs on them. We the "younger" (and I use that term loosely
) generation of Freemasons, will be charged with upholding our traditions and continuing to make GOOD MEN into BETTER MEN. If we continue to believe that there are TWO sides to Masonry simply based on the color of man's skin, we have done nothing to improve ourselves or our Brothers. Just my thoughts. I do not post this with the intention of offending any Brother.
Fraternally,
Brother Dirk
Custer148
Masonic Traveler
Brothers,
In the late 1800's (1890 I think) Washington State GL recognized the Prince Hall Grand Lodge, less than a year later due to pressure from the membership of said GL they refuted that recognition. In 1990 the GL of Nebraska by an almost unanimous vote at their Annual Communication became the first GL during the 20th century to recognize the Prince Hall GL at the same time the PH Annual Communication was held and they vote almost unanimously to recognize the NE GL. It is really too bad that it has taken so long for this recognition to take place. I have talked masonically with several PH brothers and had such a wonderful time with them. I am excited to be able to have an open invitation to visit a PH lodge and set in lodge with them.
In the late 1800's (1890 I think) Washington State GL recognized the Prince Hall Grand Lodge, less than a year later due to pressure from the membership of said GL they refuted that recognition. In 1990 the GL of Nebraska by an almost unanimous vote at their Annual Communication became the first GL during the 20th century to recognize the Prince Hall GL at the same time the PH Annual Communication was held and they vote almost unanimously to recognize the NE GL. It is really too bad that it has taken so long for this recognition to take place. I have talked masonically with several PH brothers and had such a wonderful time with them. I am excited to be able to have an open invitation to visit a PH lodge and set in lodge with them.
Kevin C Livingston
New Member
This kind of is a quandry for me as well. If it were up to me I'd would say that if a a gentlemen feels more comfortable in either a "Mainstream" or "Prince Hall" Lodge (regardless of skin color) then by all means he should be allowed to join that particular Lodge as long as he meets the criteria of belief in a Supreme being, is a "good man", and any other criteria that his jurisdiction requires. Unfortunately enough, racism STILL exists in the 21st Century! This saddens me greatly.
PatrickWilliams
I could tell you ...
Whoa, whoa, whoa, Kevin! As far as I know, there is no jurisdiction (either Mainstream or Prince Hall) where a candidate can or will be rejected on the basis of his race. There may be individual Lodges within those jurisdictions that practice that sort of racism, but not entire jurisdictions. In fact, most jurisdictions have rules against that sort of thing, if I remember correctly. Yes, racism certainly still exists, even in the 21st Century, and probably will continue to exist for a very long time. The breach between Prince Hall and Mainstream is mainly political and has to do with the "doctrine of exclusive jurisdiction" than because of anything else.This kind of is a quandry for me as well. If it were up to me I'd would say that if a a gentlemen feels more comfortable in either a "Mainstream" or "Prince Hall" Lodge (regardless of skin color) then by all means he should be allowed to join that particular Lodge as long as he meets the criteria of belief in a Supreme being, is a "good man", and any other criteria that his jurisdiction requires. Unfortunately enough, racism STILL exists in the 21st Century! This saddens me greatly.
Kevin C Livingston
New Member
I guess I made myself unclear. I am not say that any jurisdiction is prhibiting anythong and I apologize if my words were taken as such. I was merely commenting that racism still exists witin our beautiful fraternity. If my words were misunderstood (I am not very good at expressing my words properly), then I take full responsibility for the misudnerstanding!
removed12612
Guest
Kevin..... this is an E-mason intervention.... have you had the proper caffein intak...this will help get your words organized well..... ( Look in the E-masonry thread for further Light)
... have you had the proper caffein intak...this will help get your words organized well..... ( Look in the E-masonry thread for further Light)Kevin C Livingston
New Member
[thread hijack]I wish I could quit caffiene! That is the one vice I have yet to quit. I quit alcohol, smoking, and chasing women (married for thirteen wonderful years). Caffiene still has me in it's evil grip. I will give it up one day. Today just is not that day![/thread hijack]