Props to you big time! I won't take the SD chair in line (although I'll sit there for degree work) until I have that nailed down pat. As it goes in my Lodge, I should have two years to get there.
appointed Senior Deacon
- Thread starter jaya
- Start date
Bob Franks
Past District Deputy Grand Lecturer
That's great!
So many lodges rely on just a few to do the lecture work. :1-sigh:
I am told that 30 years ago my lodge, Wayne #112, had about a dozen Certified Lecturers. Today, I am the only one, and have only been a CL since August 2010!
S&F
We have 2 versions of the MC lecture, a short and long. The old timers know the long, newer members know the short.The Middle Chamber Lecture, according to our Ritualist, is what separates the men from the boysI'm Senior Steward now and have begun working on it. I figure I'll be ready to deliver it in about a year.
4
486
Guest
About 3 months after being raised I decided I wanted to learn a lecture (Charity sounded good to me :1-say-yes, so I asked the DoW. His immediate reply was to the secretary: "Ted, help this man learn the MC lecture."
It was my first. Three of us in the lodge know it, a fourth passed away two days before I gave it the first time.
, so I asked the DoW. His immediate reply was to the secretary: "Ted, help this man learn the MC lecture."It was my first. Three of us in the lodge know it, a fourth passed away two days before I gave it the first time.
4
486
Guest
I'm not sure how I feel about this. From a selfish point of view, I had to learn it, why can't everyone (everyone who chooses to learn it, that is)? It's like saying "Mt. Everest is awfully high, I don't think I can do it." And the guide saying "Too high? OK. You climb this smaller mountain and you can still say you climbed Everest."
From the candidate's point of view, it's awfully darn impressive. Not only in content (go back and study it, even if you don't try to learn it - it's pretty powerful), but remember back to when you saw/listened to a man go through the whole thing. You were probably thinking something along the lines of "holy cow! these guys put a ton of work into this stuff!" I know I did, and it made me appreciate it all the more.
Like to hear others' thoughts, though. I think my position is that it would be like new members not having to return their catechism in open lodge. If you're going to learn it, learn it all.
I can agree to a point, yes it is impressive, but only yo those that know there is a long and short version, a new candidate may not even know afterwards unless someone said something. For me, I think I will attempt the long version so the Lodge doesn't lose sight of it. It is more informative if you listen to it. and there is more to learn from it if you learn the whole MC lecture.
As I just read in a Brothers book, we are all pretty much raised right away for the title and to keep interest, but we still need to raise ourselves properly, and that may come after the getting the title.
We are not giving the degree 'to' someone, we are giving the degrees 'for' someone
Windrider
Plus-sized tuxedo model
I consider the work we officers do a gift we give to the candidates. How a man accepts a gift tells you a lot about their character.
removed12612
Guest
While I do find the lectures very important, I believe the candidates and Brothers would be better served if the lectures were give in a manner where more time could be dedicated towards understanding what is being said.
During the degrees, the candidate generally is going through information overload and if you was to ask them right after the degree what was taught in the lecture, most would not be able to remember much.....Many never hear the lectures again if they dont attend many degrees so in all reality, what good is the lecture really doing?
During the degrees, the candidate generally is going through information overload and if you was to ask them right after the degree what was taught in the lecture, most would not be able to remember much.....Many never hear the lectures again if they dont attend many degrees so in all reality, what good is the lecture really doing?
Whether additional degrees are attended or not is really out of our hands.
I think the lectures are as much for those on the sidelines as the candidate
for the reason you stated. "Information overload". He's still trying to remember what to do with his hands and feet and who is the guy with the hat on...... That was certainly true in my case. I probably heard the EA lecture half a dozen times before I "heard" the EA lecture. Same is true for the other lectures.
I also think that more time between degrees would allow the candidate to absorb more of the teachings.
removed12612
Guest
I agree with the more time between the degrees..... I also think that the lectures should be gone over in a more "studious" manner.... if a Brother only attends 3 degrees throughout his masonic journey and that is it....then in reality, the lectures are pointless. Now, if a more studious look at the lectures either in stated or called communications, will or would allow for a more focused approach to really learning the lectures.... which would actually be a benefit for the candidates and Brothers that desire to understand. I also think this approach would benefit those learning the lectures for presentation.......
I also agree with more time between. Let the candidate learn and shape his ashlar. Pass him when he is ready to be passed, raise him when he is ready to be raised. How many MMs are there that haven't even done Work from the first degree, and will probably not do the work.
Look at the many forum on the web. Out of millions of Masons, how many are we seeing in the forums....Not many.....The ones on the forum I believe are doing the work, learning, researching, perfecting their ashlars.
Connecticut is gearing up to push more for ME, and I hope it works. My Lodge after the officer change will be working for more ME. I will help out with this as much as I can. I know I will always be researching and learning.
Look at the many forum on the web. Out of millions of Masons, how many are we seeing in the forums....Not many.....The ones on the forum I believe are doing the work, learning, researching, perfecting their ashlars.
Connecticut is gearing up to push more for ME, and I hope it works. My Lodge after the officer change will be working for more ME. I will help out with this as much as I can. I know I will always be researching and learning.
Be careful not to put yourself in the position of being the ONLY one in your Lodge providing the ME. You will burn out fast. I know I did. There is a difference between wanting to provide something, and being expected to do it because no one else wants to put forth any effort.
Each year, my Lodge selects a ME committee. it is composed of the JW and a several Brothers. I was stupid enough to join ours, and now I'm a committee of one. That is exceptionally disheartening to me. As much as my Lodge says they like my ME, I'm reluctant to do any more because I'm the only one doing it. I can't do my own Work, because I have to be constantly finding something that will fit into the very narrow scope allowed by the MWGL of Florida. What they consider ME, is not what I consider it to be.
jaya
Active Member
I don't think that the numbers in the web forums are a good indication of interest and knowledge. I am on quite a few different forums and doing work. I am probably only 1 of 2 or 3 on such forums from my lodge. There are a few more on face book on our lodge page and GL page. There are many more that know more about masonry than I ever hope to learn that are not.
More time between the degrees would not be a bad thing. However, to much time might just do the opposite. I know of 2 brothers that have gone through EA and FC and that has taken them a year so far. One seems to have lost interest due to a motorcycle club and the other is moving very slow. They were told the same thing I was. It is their responsibility to do the work and no one will come after them to make them do it. It is the priorities of each brother that determines their interest.
All of these things are not new. I was reading some very old GL proceedings from 1935 and they were discussing the same issues. It is funny to see how things change and yet they remain the same all these years.
More time between the degrees would not be a bad thing. However, to much time might just do the opposite. I know of 2 brothers that have gone through EA and FC and that has taken them a year so far. One seems to have lost interest due to a motorcycle club and the other is moving very slow. They were told the same thing I was. It is their responsibility to do the work and no one will come after them to make them do it. It is the priorities of each brother that determines their interest.
All of these things are not new. I was reading some very old GL proceedings from 1935 and they were discussing the same issues. It is funny to see how things change and yet they remain the same all these years.
Bob Franks
Past District Deputy Grand Lecturer
Can you give the information you want, under a different name?
How about just announcing it as "an enlightening talk," or "some interesting news?"
S&F
Personally, I want to delve into the lessons that the degrees teach. Florida is a jurisdiction that limits what they consider ME. Mostly, regulations, Masonic etiquette and the like. I've been dancing around that to keep within the guidelines, but it is a little frustrating. I've been fortunate enough to have some like minded Brothers who have helped me explain ritual and the esoteric side of Masonry that keeps the theme within the guidelines, but it leave me wanting to do more. I push the envelope in that regard, and do what I can. It's just a little discouraging with the politics being what they are.
removed12612
Guest
Could the info you wish to explore be designed as a masonic presentation for the lodge and leave the official ME to what the GL prescribes....
I guess it could, but I still need to meet the requirements. I'll have to think about it some more. The Brothers seem to enjoy my Work, but I fear being called on it if someone wants to be a hard ass about it. I'm just venting a bit. Not complaining about my Lodge, just about the GL restrictions. I don't want to put the Lodge in a position of question with the GL in regards to what we are doing for ME. I'm a "Builder" if you catch my drift.
removed12612
Guest
I hear ya..... I am just wondering if you had a masonic speaker such as Bro's Hodapp,De Hoyo or Morris would they have to stay within the boundaries..... if it is not the official ME presentation for Lodge...... you could use your lodge Brothers as a test audience.
BTW...I didnt include a certain masonic author since he is bound by the GL of FL to be a good boy....
BTW...I didnt include a certain masonic author since he is bound by the GL of FL to be a good boy....
My understanding is that "Masonic Education" in my jurisdiction is limited to a list of what the GL deems as appropriate material to use. I've seen the list, and I'm less than impressed with the overall selection. I hope in the future that they add to it. I'm not holding my breath for that though.
As far as some heavy hitters coming in to speak, that would be billed as a special event speaker. They could talk about what they want as far as I know. They would be from another jurisdiction, so I don't know what their limitations would be.
There are several Brothers on this forum from my jurisdiction. Maybe they know the answer to your question.