Freemasonry/Shrine

[Bob Franks]

So...if I am traveling and find an open evening, the rules in Florida would prohibit me from looking up lodges in the telephone book [or on a grand lodge website] and giving them a call?
3 years ago, down at Friendship, Indiana, for a large black powder shoot, over in the primitive camping area, I encountered the secretary of a nearby lodge. He told me they were having an Entered Apprentice Degree while I would be there.
I told him I would love to come and compare how the lecture differed from NC's.

He said with raised eyebrows, "Oh...you know the lecture...?"

Woulda been a pity if my GL prevented me from talking to him.

S&F

 

[Zack]

Grand SecretaryGrand Lodge of Florida F&AM
Masonic Protocol Reminder to Florida Members: In accordance with proper Masonic Protocol, relative to all Masonic business, members residing within the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons in the State of Florida are strictly forbidden to correspond, contact or communicate directly, with any other Grand Jurisdiction or Lodge within any other Masonic Jurisdiction, by any available method (including email or phone calls), except through the office of the Grand Secretary of the Grand Lodge, F.& A.M. in the State of Florida ( unless you are a dual member of that Lodge ), or by expressed permission of each Grand Jurisdiction.
(end quote)

That is not what it says Bro Franks. Perhaps you should read it again.

 

[Windrider]

Grand SecretaryGrand Lodge of Florida F&AM
Masonic Protocol Reminder to Florida Members: In accordance with proper Masonic Protocol, relative to all Masonic business, members residing within the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons in the State of Florida are strictly forbidden to correspond, contact or communicate directly, with any other Grand Jurisdiction or Lodge within any other Masonic Jurisdiction, by any available method (including email or phone calls), except through the office of the Grand Secretary of the Grand Lodge, F.& A.M. in the State of Florida ( unless you are a dual member of that Lodge ), or by expressed permission of each Grand Jurisdiction.
(end quote)

That is not what it says Bro Franks. Perhaps you should read it again.

I think the confusion is with the phrase "any other Grand Jurisdiction or Lodge". Does that mean the individual lodge or the Grand Lodge? If it means the individual lodge, I am guilty of unmasonic conduct because I emailed a lodge in Florida and visited them without going through the Grand Lodges.

 

[Gary2112]

I think the confusion is with the phrase "any other Grand Jurisdiction or Lodge". Does that mean the individual lodge or the Grand Lodge? If it means the individual lodge, I am guilty of unmasonic conduct because I emailed a lodge in Florida and visited them without going through the Grand Lodges.

It means Grand Lodge. There is nothing from preventing you from contacting a Lodge for visitation. If it were against the rules, the Lodge receiving such communication would be in violation if it responded to you.

That's the problem with these rule books. Someone who is trying to sound important throws needless verbiage in the document which opens the intended meaning up to various interpretations. You get those who read too much into the rules and make silly assumptions based on literal interpretations of the confusing words on the page.

 

[Windrider]

Oh, good. I had the best Masonic meal of my life there It was in Boca Raton and the lodge chef had recently competed on "Iron Chef"

 

[Gary2112]

To the best of my knowledge, any other formal communications should go through the GL of FL up to and including visitors from other countries. I've never heard of U.S. Mason's having to go through a GL to get to visit a local Lodge. You show up, get verified in a book of recognized Lodges, show your current dues card, pass investigation etc,... and you sit in Lodge with us.

 

[Zack]

When I have visited out 0f state lodges I contact someone to find out about dress code, meals, etc and as a polite heads up that there will be a visitor. I was advised on one occasion that I might want to wait as they were having a discussion and vote on raising dues and it could be a long meeting. I appreciated that. Don't like to sit through that in my own lodge.

 

[Windrider]

While travelling on business, I was invited to attend a meeting in New York. The lodge had some private business to discuss and let me know that. When it came up at the end of the meeting, I excused myself and waited outside with the Tyler. No big deal.

 

[Bob Franks]

Grand SecretaryGrand Lodge of Florida F&AM
Masonic Protocol Reminder to Florida Members: In accordance with proper Masonic Protocol, relative to all Masonic business, members residing within the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons in the State of Florida are strictly forbidden to correspond, contact or communicate directly, with any other Grand Jurisdiction or Lodge within any other Masonic Jurisdiction, by any available method (including email or phone calls), except through the office of the Grand Secretary of the Grand Lodge, F.& A.M. in the State of Florida ( unless you are a dual member of that Lodge ), or by expressed permission of each Grand Jurisdiction.
(end quote)

That is not what it says Bro Franks. Perhaps you should read it again.

Perhaps I should have said, "If I were a Florida Mason...the rules in Florida would prohibit me from looking up lodges..."

I bolded, underscored, and enlarged the font on "or Lodge" in the Grand Secretary pronouncement posted above. I still think it would have dinged me if I did not go through the Grand Secretary owing to the late hour of the day.
I hope we don't have that rule in NC [AF&AM] and frankly don't plan to look for one!

S&F

 

[Gary2112]

Perhaps I should have said, "If I were a Florida Mason...the rules in Florida would prohibit me from looking up lodges..."

I bolded, underscored, and enlarged the font on "or Lodge" in the Grand Secretary pronouncement posted above. I still think it would have dinged me if I did not go through the Grand Secretary owing to the late hour of the day.
I hope we don't have that rule in NC [AF&AM] and frankly don't plan to look for one!

S&F

Respectfully, I disagree with your interpretation. It does not refer to individual Lodges in our jurisdiction regarding something as simple as visitation.

 

[Ashlar2006]

Yes , some are misinterpreting this rule . In mine it means that you may not formally contact another jurisdiction . In other words , if you have a request (example: courtesy work )or question (example: rules of said jurisdiction) of a lodge/GL across a state line , then that request must go through each Grand Lodge .

This rule has nothing to do with visitation . This rule has nothing to do with having a friendly chat with brethren from other jurisdictions . For example , you are in another state and happen to bump into the GM of said jurisdiction , he notices your ring and you strike up a conversation , that is perfectly acceptable .Some are either confused as to what this rule means or just flat out taking it to far . This is where common sense comes into play .


This rule is in place for a good reason , to control the flow of information , to keep each Grand Lodge in the loop and make sure everything is legal and on the up and up . It is better to have your butt covered by having to go through each GL than taking it upon yourself and then later getting into trouble .

 

[dajofa]

Ash -

From where you quoted me the page before. I see it has been clarified as to speaking to ther Masons!


What I was saying was in reference to a Cemab4y statement that he could not even have contact with "out of state" Masons. And confer advice from them of non Masonic nature.

Quote from Cemab4y :

"Since I am forbidden from having any contact with Masons outside of my state (to ask for advice or guidance)"

It is 100% inappropriate to contact an out of state grand lodge in all cases! ALL of my correspondence even with my own Grand Lodge goes through my Secretary. I don't even contact my own Grand Lodge for the exact reasons you state!

Fraternally
Dave

 

[Ashlar2006]

Ash -

From where you quoted me the page before. I see it has been clarified as to speaking to ther Masons!


What I was saying was in reference to a Cemab4y statement that he could not even have contact with "out of state" Masons. And confer advice from them of non Masonic nature.

Quote from Cemab4y :

"Since I am forbidden from having any contact with Masons outside of my state (to ask for advice or guidance)"

It is 100% inappropriate to contact an out of state grand lodge in all cases! ALL of my correspondence even with my own Grand Lodge goes through my Secretary. I don't even contact my own Grand Lodge for the exact reasons you state!

Fraternally
Dave

I hate to say this but Cemb is either very mistaken in what he was really told OR as I stated before a GM has OVERSTEPPED his bounds . Or we are still not receiving the entire story .

 

[Zack]

I hate to say this but Cemb is either very mistaken at what he was really told OR as I stated before a GM has OVERSTEPPED his bounds . Or we are still not receiving the entire story .

Exactly! I'd bet on the 3rd option

 

[Ironhawg]

Yes , some are misinterpreting this rule . In mine it means that you may not formally contact another jurisdiction . In other words , if you have a request (example: courtesy work )or question (example: rules of said jurisdiction) of a lodge/GL across a state line , then that request must go through each Grand Lodge .

This rule has nothing to do with visitation . This rule has nothing to do with having a friendly chat with brethren from other jurisdictions . For example , you are in another state and happen to bump into the GM of said jurisdiction , he notices your ring and you strike up a conversation , that is perfectly acceptable .Some are either confused as to what this rule means or just flat out taking it to far . This is where common sense comes into play .


This rule is in place for a good reason , to control the flow of information , to keep each Grand Lodge in the loop and make sure everything is legal and on the up and up . It is better to have your butt covered by having to go through each GL than taking it upon yourself and then later getting into trouble .

I have a question about contacting a GL in another jurisdiction. I want to do some research on an ancestor and find out if he/they were Masons. They lived in a different GL jurisdiction. Would I need to send my request for information through my GL to the other GLs?

 

[Ashlar2006]

I have a question about contacting a GL in another jurisdiction. I want to do some research on an ancestor and find out if he/they were Masons. They lived in a different GL jurisdiction. Would I need to send my request for information through my GL to the other GLs?

More than likely . But this would be a question better asked of your DDGM , DGM and/or GM . The DGM or GM may give you permission to by-pass having to send the request through your GL to their's . When in doubt , ask your chain of command , it is better to be safe than sorry .

 

[Gary2112]

I have a question about contacting a GL in another jurisdiction. I want to do some research on an ancestor and find out if he/they were Masons. They lived in a different GL jurisdiction. Would I need to send my request for information through my GL to the other GLs?

I had the same question come up. I went through my Lodge secretary who in turn sent my request to my GL and then to the GL in question for the inquiry.

Not really a difficult task. The GL we contacted was very helpful.

 

[Ashlar2006]

I had the same question come up. I went through my Lodge secretary who in turn sent my request to my GL and then to the GL in question for the inquiry.

Not really a difficult task. The GL we contacted was very helpful.

No , not difficult at all . It may take a little longer , but everything will be above board .

I think Cemb and others want it to be that we should be able to just pick up a phone , snail mail , e-mail , text etc; etc; any Grand Lodge/Grand Master/Lodge/Master when ever and where ever we so choose . I for one do not . As a representative of my GM in my district , my phone rings off the hook with my own members . I do not need brethren from other districts or jurisdictions calling me , e-mailing me etc; etc; .

It is easy for those who have never been a GL officer (or a Master/secretary for that matter) to sit behind their keyboards and make statements that we should have the freedom to contact any jurisdiction we so wish , but it is not that easy . We have our hands full handling our own jurisdiction without having to deal with those on the outside . I am not saying it is not something we can not handle , but if this is something the secretaries who are on the Grand Lodge's pay roll can handle , then there is no need bothering the Grand Lodge officers with it . Such as looking for information of an ancestor's Masonic history . This is something that does not need to be brought to the attention of the GM , the everyday secretaries in the Grand Lodge office can handle such a request .

 

[Bob Franks]

(snip)
I want to do some research on an ancestor and find out if he/they were Masons. (snip)

Bro. Ironhawg-I think it's a great idea to look up a (possibly) Masonic ancestor. If you are able to find his lodge and get a copy of his petition, it will add richness and humanity to your heritage.
I discovered that my step-grandfather had originally petitioned a clandestine lodge before The World War, then during World War II petitioned a legitimate lodge by submitting documentation (including his dues card!) and explanations about the first experience. On his second petition I saw signatures of fine men I knew around me growing up.

S&F

 

[Ironhawg]

Bro. Ironhawg-I think it's a great idea to look up a (possibly) Masonic ancestor. If you are able to find his lodge and get a copy of his petition, it will add richness and humanity to your heritage.
I discovered that my step-grandfather had originally petitioned a clandestine lodge before The World War, then during World War II petitioned a legitimate lodge by submitting documentation (including his dues card!) and explanations about the first experience. On his second petition I saw signatures of fine men I knew around me growing up.

S&F

Thanks to all for the replies. I know for certain that my father and his father were Master Masons. I believe that my paternal great-grandfather was a MM. I want to find out about my great-great-grandfather and his ancestors.