Freemasonry/Shrine
- Thread starter Ashlar2006
- Start date
Effingham
MEDIA VITA IN MORTE SVMMVS
I love you, man. Fezzes are cool. Bow ties are cool.
If you are not interested in the history of the Shrine, fine. I posted the information, for background purposes only. Let me say that I cannot predict the future. I can make some reasonable assumptions, though.
The Shrine is NOT a masonic organization. It is an organization composed of men who are Masons. This is an important legal point. The Shrine has alcohol, gambling (poker games, etc), fund-raisers, etc. These activities are strictly forbidden by most Craft Lodges (and Grand Lodges). In my home lodge, you cannot even have a deck of cards in the lodge building, and play a game of cribbage (even for fun).
The Shrine was established so that Masons could have fun, dining, relaxation, etc OUTSIDE of the serious environments of Freemasonry. Dr. Walter Fleming and Billy Florence established the organization for enjoyment and entertainment. The gaudy constumes and the "Arabian Nights" theme were very popular in the 19th century, and the organization took hold, and spread nationally. The Shrine expanded into Mexico , Canada, and the Repubic of Panama. Now there are Shrine clubs in Great Britain, and Germany, Japan, and several other countries. The first Shrine center outside of North America, will probably be established in England. The Shrine is very active in the Phillippines, and a Shrine Center there, is possible.
When I speak of a "disaster", I mean that if the Shrine and Masonry split, and each organization goes its separate ways, then men like myself, who joined the Shrine, in order to have fun, frivolity, and wholesome entertainment and recreation with other Masons in the Shrine environment, will have to leave. If the Shrine drops the requirement that all members will have to be Master Masons in good standing, then the reason for the Shrine to exist in the first place will be obsolete, and the Shrine I joined in 1989, will cease to exist. I will refuse to participate in a Shrine, which permits any man off the street to join. This is not negotiable.
Most Shrine meetings, and dinners, and other activities are open to the members and their ladies. This is very important. My wife cannot attend most Masonic functions. The lodge has maybe one sweetheart dance per year. The Shrine has all types of dinner meetings, and parties and St. Patrick's day dances, which I can attend with my wife.
Keep in mind that there are over 100 (one hundred) appendant and concordant organization and groups in the Masonic "family of organizations". I like to think of this as a "cafeteria of organizations" ,where each Mason can find his own group or groups, to meet his needs. If you can get enjoyment and satisfaction from being a Craft Mason, and not participate in other groups, then fine. Many Masons find that the relaxed and informal environment of the Shrine, is one of the most important aspects of his entire Masonic experience.
If you wish to know more, please see this link:
http://zorahshrine.org/_Home_Dec_2011/Shriner_Primer.pdf
==I reside in Virginia (I do not hold membership in a Virginia lodge, but I do belong to Alexandria VA scottish Rite). The Grand Lodge of Virginia forbids lodges from establishing any charities, or distributing any financial donations to ANY charity, group, or organization that is not Masonically-affiliated. (Source, Howard Soble, past District Deputy Grand Master (VA), and Past potentate of Kena Shrine).
With this restriction in place, how can Virginia Masons do any Charitable work in their community, or support any charitable or humanitarian work?
--I belong to lodges in Kentucky and Massachusetts. My two Grand Lodges strictly forbid alcohol at ALL Masonic functions, whether the function is held in the lodge building or in a non-Masonic building, like a restaurant. I have been to several table lodges in Virginia, and other states. The toasts are done with grape juice, only. NO alcohol permitted under any circumstances.
With this restriction in place, how can there be a table lodge with wine and scotch whisky?
Ashlar2006
Masonic Mafia
I am a Kentucky Mason also Charles and boy , you sure did miss the point of my post didn't you ? . We are working on setting up dinners that are "table lodge" like out side of a Masonic Lodge . Of course there will be NO opening or Closing of a Lodge , no degrees or anything else that would need to be done in an open lodge meeting , we are merely borrowing their "dinner portion" of the table lodge concept . What , do you think Masons can only converse about Masonry in a lodge ? That We have to have some charter present to hold Masonic intercourse with one another ?
Nothing is stopping Masons from getting together , have a black tie dinner , converse about Masonry , have toasts , drink good scotch , smoke a good cigar and so on and so forth without control of some Masonic body . We are working on this on our own here , I do not need permission from any Grand Lodge officer to do this . You have to use your imagination , there are ways around things . It does not have to held be in a Masonic lodge . The problem with many is they want to stick a name to something , make it a "lodge function" and/or try to make it "official" such as Square and Compasses club because they just have to have one more card in their wallet and this brings the Grand Lodge into it . The Grand Lodge has NO SAY in what we do at "non-official Masonic functions" and Masons gathering together for dinner and drinks would not be considered an "Official function" , you are just splitting hairs .
I for one do not need the Shrine to have fun and frivolity with my brethren . We do a bang up job with that now for free with our Mason only (sometimes with our families) parties , dinners and BBQs' ! Well , not completely free , we do have to pay for the beer and the scotch . And yet again , this was THE POINT of my post you quoted .
Nothing is stopping Masons from getting together , have a black tie dinner , converse about Masonry , have toasts , drink good scotch , smoke a good cigar and so on and so forth without control of some Masonic body . We are working on this on our own here , I do not need permission from any Grand Lodge officer to do this . You have to use your imagination , there are ways around things . It does not have to held be in a Masonic lodge . The problem with many is they want to stick a name to something , make it a "lodge function" and/or try to make it "official" such as Square and Compasses club because they just have to have one more card in their wallet and this brings the Grand Lodge into it . The Grand Lodge has NO SAY in what we do at "non-official Masonic functions" and Masons gathering together for dinner and drinks would not be considered an "Official function" , you are just splitting hairs .
I for one do not need the Shrine to have fun and frivolity with my brethren . We do a bang up job with that now for free with our Mason only (sometimes with our families) parties , dinners and BBQs' ! Well , not completely free , we do have to pay for the beer and the scotch . And yet again , this was THE POINT of my post you quoted .
Ashlar2006
Masonic Mafia
To all other Brethren , do you all see what I am getting at here !?!? Do I need to spell it out any further and clearer !? I thought I was clear in my other post , but I guess not .
Ashlar2006
Masonic Mafia
One more thing Charles , you are incorrect , it seems that Massachusetts DOES allow alcohol in table lodges and after meetings . Windrider , do you wish to step in here ?
Windrider
Plus-sized tuxedo model
As I just posted in another thread, Massachusetts only allows wine at table lodges with dispensation and a Grand Lodge representative present. After the meeting, we can gather and enjoy a drink together.
We just can't have a permanent bar in our buildings.
Ashlar2006
Masonic Mafia
But you CAN have alcohol in your lodges . If someone is going to post rules of a jurisdiction , at least be accurate .
Windrider
Plus-sized tuxedo model
I was accurate
One of my greatest pleasures was raising a glass with the Grand Master after a lodge meeting he attended.
Ashlar2006
Masonic Mafia
Yes you were brother and I thank you .I was accurate
I stand corrected, thank you. I belong to a lodge in Massachusetts, even though I have never attended any lodge in Massachusetts. I am certainly not an expert on Mass masonic jurisprudence.
I am, however, well-acquainted with the situation in Kentucky (I have been a KY mason since 1982). Kentucky is slowly coming up. Until only a few years ago, anyone involved in the production, distribution or sale of alcohol, was forbidden from being a mason in Kentucky. If you owned a restaurant, and the restaurant served wine, you could not be made a Mason in Kentucky.
I have attended lodges in foreign countries, where alcohol flows freely. I would be delighted if all USA Grand Lodges would drop the prohibition, and permit the moderate use of alcohol in lodge buildings.
--If you can have a meaningful Masonic experience without participating in the Shrine, then fine. I wish you well. I myself have not been active in the Shrine since 2002. I can have a meaningful Masonic experience, without the Eastern Star, or the DeMolay. These are fine organizations, they just don't interest me for now.
I reside in Virginia. I often attend Virginia lodges. After the meeting is closed, sometimes we walk across the street to a tavern or restaurant, and enjoy a libation. I did some work in Indiana. The Grand Lodge of Indiana forbids alcohol in lodge buildings. After lodge meetings (Fort Wayne, Indiana), I would sometimes, go to the Rizpah Shrine center, and relax with a libation and a sandwich.
Here in the USA, most (but not all) Grand Lodges forbid alcohol in their lodge buildings. It was only in 1990, that the Grand Lodge of Michigan permitted lodges in Michigan, to rent out their buildings to non-Masonic functions (square dancing, wedding receptions, bar-mitzvahs,etc) and to permit the non-Masonic functions to serve alcohol.
Here in the USA, most (but not all) Grand Lodges forbid alcohol in their lodge buildings. It was only in 1990, that the Grand Lodge of Michigan permitted lodges in Michigan, to rent out their buildings to non-Masonic functions (square dancing, wedding receptions, bar-mitzvahs,etc) and to permit the non-Masonic functions to serve alcohol.
Ashlar2006
Masonic Mafia
AGAIN , the Grand Lodge CAN NOT forbid Masons from getting together for drinks and dinner and talk about Masonry . I KNOW the Constitution . You do not need to suggest anything to me . Formal or informal club you are still trying to start something that is "club like" , connected to the Fraternity and opening yourself to the Grand Lodge stepping in . We are not doing that , we are having dinners with friends who just so happens to all be Masons . That is the point you are missing .
By your line of thinking , every time we have get togethers of Masons and their families , then the Grand Lodge may step in and put a stop to it or be held responsible and that is absurd .
If I or someone else has an accident on the way home after a few drinks , there is no one to blame but the driver as it is a private dinner of men who just so happen to be men in black ties , who had fancy names for their drink glasses (canons) and are Masons , there is NO connection to any lodge or Grand Lodge , PERIOD . This is not rocket science .
It is not my line of thinking. All I know is what the Grand Master of Masons in Kentucky told me. I am not an expert on the constitution and by-laws of the GL of Kentucky. I find it beyond absurd, that the GM would call me at home, and tell me not have any such meetings.
Maybe you remember what happened in Texas, with the "Widow's Sons Motorcycle club". A group of masons rode their bikes on weekends. They raised many thousands of dollars for masonic charities. The Grand Master of Masons in Texas shut them down cold. Although there was no specific prohibition in the constitution and by-laws of the GL of Texas. And there was no specific authority delegated to the GM, about regulating such clubs. When asked by a Mason, why the GM shut down the club, the GM replied "Because I can".
If you wish to have meetings with your masonic friends, and raise a glass or two, I wish you well. Just don't be surprised if the GM calls you and tells you to cease and desist.
Winter
I've been here before
First, the Widows Sons issue in TX did not happen just because the GM wanted to throw his weight around. And your claim that this is the case is worse than misleading. It is a lie. Have you even asked a WS about this? There is a very long and involved story about this incident. The Widows Sons had requested appendant status in TX since the organization meets as Masons, marked as Masons with Masonic in the name. The Grand Lodge of Texas has jurisdiction over lawful Masonic activity in its territory. Ergo, the GM had every right to decide whether to allow the Widows Sons to operate in Texas. Sadly, he was working off of incorrect data when he made his decision and they were denied legitimate status. There is plenty more but I will let others tell the tale. Cemab4ym please stop spreading incorrect information that the GM of TX was abusing his power when he made this decision. It is not true.
As to your statement that I have highlighted. I believe you have taken the argument to an absurd conclusion here. If not, please provide an example of this happening. I seriously doubt you can.