Freemasonry/Shrine

[Ashlar2006]

Also Winter , we have Masons who go out and ride together every weekend , they do not ride under any name , no patch , no nothing , They ride as friends .

I will say this one last time , the Grand Master can not tell us to cease and desist getting together outside of a Masonic lodge or an official Masonic function as he has no authority on our private lives . Cemab4y is letting his hate for Grand Lodges show through and his statement is absurd .

 

[Windrider]

Also Winter , we have Masons who go out and ride together every weekend , they do not ride under any name , no patch , no nothing , They ride as friends .

I will say this one last time , the Grand Master can not tell us to cease and desist getting together outside of a Masonic lodge or an official Masonic function as he has no authority on our private lives . Cemab4y is letting his hate for Grand Lodges show through and his statement is absurd .

Not to contradict you, but the Grand Master certainly has the authority to step into my private life so long as I am a Mason. If I commit a crime or decide to say something detrimental to the Craft on Facebook, he could tear up my dues card if he chose to. I am a Mason both in and out of the lodge and represent the Craft at all times weather I intend to or not. The Grand Master therefore has authority over me as long as I carry that dues card.

Of course, he wouldn't care if I rode a motorcycle with my friends. In fact, the current Grand Master of Massachusetts, Richard Stewart, is a rider. What he would care about is the implications of riding as a "MC" because of the poor reputation many clubs have. I know he struggles to find a balance for the Widows Sons as he has said as much.

 

[Ashlar2006]

Not to contradict you, but the Grand Master certainly has the authority to step into my private life so long as I am a Mason. If I commit a crime or decide to say something detrimental to the Craft on Facebook, he could tear up my dues card if he chose to. I am a Mason both in and out of the lodge and represent the Craft at all times weather I intend to or not. The Grand Master therefore has authority over me as long as I carry that dues card.

Of course, he wouldn't care if I rode a motorcycle with my friends. In fact, the current Grand Master of Massachusetts, Richard Stewart, is a rider. What he would care about is the implications of riding as a "MC" because of the poor reputation many clubs have. I know he struggles to find a balance for the Widows Sons as he has said as much.

As long as I remain a peaceful citizen and obey the laws and I remain within the limits of my constitution , then NO the GM has no authority in my private life .

You are taking it to far , I mean please , the GM is not some god sitting on some high throne looking down over his minions , yanking dues cards for having a little too much scotch or getting a little loud at a private party . The GM can not tell us we can not get together for dinners , parties , picnics , etc; etc; as friends . What you stated above is just common sense . If he wants my dues card for having fun with my brethren on our own time and in private , then he can have it .

I agree when in public we should act like men and Masons , but when we get to together in private , what we do is our own business (within the limits of the law) . If the GM was yanking dues cards for drinking to much and getting loud , I know MANY Masons , myself included , that would have their dues cards yanked . We do have fun at our PRIVATE functions . And that is the key word , PRIVATE .

 

[Ashlar2006]

In a deep booming voice from on up high ,GM George Washington says .......

"You had to much to drink in your home while having a PRIVATE party !!!!!! DUES CARD REVOKED!!!!!!!!! MUH , HA ,HA , HA , HA

 

[Ashlar2006]

Sorry , could not help myself when I seen this picture !

 

[Ashlar2006]

... until some Grand Master on a mission gets it into his head to declare Masonic "Supper Clubs" clandestine.

But your adding the word "club" to it . This is not a "club" this is friends that happen to be Masons getting together , We do this on a monthly basis in one form another already . What we do in private (AGAIN within the limits of the law) is beyond the scope of the Grand Master's power or authority .

The minute a Mason or Masons start a "club" with some sort of Masonic moniker such as "Square and Compasses" Club , then it makes it a Masonic function . When you leave all names and titles out of the equation , then it removes the Grand Lodge and lodge(s) out of the equation .

ETA : When a Grand Master starts stepping into our private lives , telling us we may not associate together outside of a lodge or lodge function is the day I will take it upon myself to demit .

 

[Winter]

Demit? That's the day I join the Grand Line!

 

[Gary2112]

Did somebody say demit? The more I hear about the So called power of a GM, the more I consider doing so.

Do these guys seriously think they are sovereign kings who can do whatever they choose without discretion? Up to and including violating my first amendment rights?

Bah humbug.

 

[Bill_F]

Hypothetically, if Grand Lodge breaks ties with the Shrine, and says we cannot belong to a Temple, but the Shriners were to start allowing Non masons to join, then technically it is not a "Masonic" organization. Can they stop us from joining? Not that it matters to me, as I have no intention of applying. But just wondering.
I went to my First Stated meeting last night, and it also happened to include a visit from the DDGM. It just made me realize that there is so much to experience in Blue Lodge, It will probably be quite awhile before I start looking into appendant bodies.

 

[cemab4y]

@ cemab-

Off topic question... Why would you have a membership in a jurisdiction and never have been in Lodge there? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

Im sure you have a reason, just curious..

I do a lot of international work. I was working in Iraq in 2006, and a lodge in Mass. offered to send candy and items for the soldiers on the base where I worked. They sent the items, and I distributed them. I got a USA flag, and had it flown in the combat zone, and I sent the flag to the lodge. The lodge (Mass) voted me honorary membership. I was touched, for I really had not done anything, the lodge provided all of the goodies, I just distributed them. Later the lodge decided to make me a full member of their lodge. I have been proud to be a member of Macedonian Lodge in Quincy, Mass since 2009. I have never been in their lodge, nor any Mass lodge.

 

[cemab4y]

First, the Widows Sons issue in TX did not happen just because the GM wanted to throw his weight around. And your claim that this is the case is worse than misleading. It is a lie. Have you even asked a WS about this? There is a very long and involved story about this incident. The Widows Sons had requested appendant status in TX since the organization meets as Masons, marked as Masons with Masonic in the name. The Grand Lodge of Texas has jurisdiction over lawful Masonic activity in its territory. Ergo, the GM had every right to decide whether to allow the Widows Sons to operate in Texas. Sadly, he was working off of incorrect data when he made his decision and they were denied legitimate status. There is plenty more but I will let others tell the tale. Cemab4ym please stop spreading incorrect information that the GM of TX was abusing his power when he made this decision. It is not true.

As to your statement that I have highlighted. I believe you have taken the argument to an absurd conclusion here. If not, please provide an example of this happening. I seriously doubt you can.

I am not an expert on the situation in Texas, all I know is what I read on the net, and what was posted in the Masons of Texas discussion forum. I am certain that there is a "backstory". I do know that when the GM of Texas was asked why he shut down the motorcycle club, he replied "Because I can".

now, as to

If you wish to have meetings with your masonic friends, and raise a glass or two, I wish you well. Just don't be surprised if the GM calls you and tells you to cease and desist.

I will be glad to provide an example. It happened to me. I was living in Bowling Green KY. I wanted to meet twice a month, and have breakfast with my Masonic friends. I went to some of the lodges in the area, and discussed having breakfasts with anyone who was interested. A past Grand Master of Masons in Kentucky (the late Marlin White) was present at one of the lodge meetings where I discussed the breakfasts. He called the current Grand Master (Bill Hinton), and told him about my plans.

The current Grand Master of Masons in Kentucky (Bill Hinton) called me at home, and told me to cease and desist. I was NOT to have any meetings of any kind with my Masonic friends under any circumstances. He said that someone could be driving to a meeting, and possibly have an accident, and the Grand Lodge of Kentucky would be subject to a lawsuit. He told me directly that no meetings of any kind could ever take place under circumstances, and that if I had a breakfast with my masonic friends, that I would be subject to Masonic discipline, and be suspended or expelled from the Grand Lodge of Kentucky.

It happened to me. It can happen to anyone.

 

[cemab4y]

Also Winter , we have Masons who go out and ride together every weekend , they do not ride under any name , no patch , no nothing , They ride as friends .

I will say this one last time , the Grand Master can not tell us to cease and desist getting together outside of a Masonic lodge or an official Masonic function as he has no authority on our private lives . Cemab4y is letting his hate for Grand Lodges show through and his statement is absurd .

It is not about hate. It is about reality. A Grand Master can call you at home, and tell you not to have breakfast with your Masonic friends. It happened to me. It can happen to you. (See my posting, where I tell what happened to me in Kentucky)

 

[Gary2112]

I am not an expert on the situation in Texas, all I know is what I read on the net, and what was posted in the Masons of Texas discussion forum. I am certain that there is a "backstory". I do know that when the GM of Texas was asked why he shut down the motorcycle club, he replied "Because I can".

now, as to

If you wish to have meetings with your masonic friends, and raise a glass or two, I wish you well. Just don't be surprised if the GM calls you and tells you to cease and desist.

I will be glad to provide an example. It happened to me. I was living in Bowling Green KY. I wanted to meet twice a month, and have breakfast with my Masonic friends. I went to some of the lodges in the area, and discussed having breakfasts with anyone who was interested. A past Grand Master of Masons in Kentucky (the late Marlin White) was present at one of the lodge meetings where I discussed the breakfasts. He called the current Grand Master (Bill Hinton), and told him about my plans.

The current Grand Master of Masons in Kentucky (Bill Hinton) called me at home, and told me to cease and desist. I was NOT to have any meetings of any kind with my Masonic friends under any circumstances. He said that someone could be driving to a meeting, and possibly have an accident, and the Grand Lodge of Kentucky would be subject to a lawsuit. He told me directly that no meetings of any kind could ever take place under circumstances, and that if I had a breakfast with my masonic friends, that I would be subject to Masonic discipline, and be suspended or expelled from the Grand Lodge of Kentucky.

It happened to me. It can happen to anyone.

That is utterly absurd. Unless you were scheduling a Lodge related function, who you have breakfast with, Mason or not is none of the GM's business.

I do this informally with some very close Brothers. If the GM ever called me on it Id likely tell him to pound sand.

What ever happened to MASONRY? You know... The discourse among like minded Brothers??? It has nothing to do with a Lodge room or the grand line.

A wise man once said that a properly raised Master needs no Lodge. He travels...

Who is the GM to prohibit a Masons travels and reception of further light? Especially if the travels are of a social nature and do not have anything to do with Lodge functions or business?

I suppose a GM could mandate that I cant have a Brother over to my house for a meal too eh? Bravo Sierra I say.

 

[Winter]

Cemab4y, that is completely absurd. First if it happened that way it was not legal under any GL laws I am aware of in the US. Second, why would you allow a GM to give you an obviously unlawful order like that?

 

[cemab4y]

The incident I have related, reads like science fiction. But it is the reality, I assure you. It really happened. I did not allow the GM to give me the order. He made the decision to give me the order, and that was the end of it. Grand Masters give orders like this all the the time. We have to just "suck it up" and follow the order.

Once I needed some advice on how to set up a bank account. I contacted a CPA in New Jersey, and asked for some advice. It got back to my Grand Lodge, and I was told, in writing, that I could have no contact with any Masons outside of my state (KY), and could ask for no advice of any kind.

I was once living in Iraq. A Fellow Craft Mason from Washington state, needed some advice about masonry. On his behalf, I contacted the Grand Secretary of the GL of Washington. This contact got back to my Grand Lodge, and I was told that I could not ask for advice from any Grand Lodge other than my own, under any circumstances.

Masons are gagged and handcuffed by Grand Lodges all the time. These incidents are published on the internet, and easy available to anyone who is interested.

"power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" - Lord Acton.

 

[Gary2112]

Bro. Charles,

Was your attempt at getting Brothers together for a breakfast set up as a Lodge function? Was it set up as a sanctioned event like a club? Or just a casual get together. If it eas the latter, the GM was out of line and abusing his power.

 

[cemab4y]

Bro. Charles,

Was your attempt at getting Brothers together for a breakfast set up as a Lodge function? Was it set up as a sanctioned event like a club? Or just a casual get together. If it eas the latter, the GM was out of line and abusing his power.

This was no lodge function. And certainly not "sanctioned" by the GL of KY or any other masonic body.

Grand Masters, especially in the Southern USA, have been "pushing the envelope" of their power for a long time. I tried to see it from the GM's point of view. We are all so scared of lawsuits, that we are becoming paranoid. He did not want to see the Grand Lodge put at legal risk. So he told me not to have such meetings. I did what I was told.

 

[goomba]

There must be a line drawn somewhere. The GM has ultimate Masonic authority this most would agree on. However, if he can dictate who and how we hang out with people, then what is to stop him from telling me I must move, change jobs, or wear boxers? None of the latter fall under Masonic jurisdiction so I think I would be very safe in saying NO. In the military and in law enforcement we are told we do not have to obey an unlawful order. Ergo the same thought would follow into my Masonic life. If not and we blindly obey we have lost our prestige as thinking FREE men and the conspiracies start becoming true. That my friends is NOT the Masonry I joined.

 

[jaya]

This talk about charity and community giving is a little off here. Charity was originally internal. By that I mean that charity and support of masons, widows, and orphans. Community charity was a later thing and comes from better men wanting to aid the community.

 

[kblair210]

The Blue Lodge has a man for several months at minimum before they can leave it behind in favor of being 'only' a Shriner. If your lodge isn't enticing enough to make these men want to be active in your lodge don't blame Shriners. Look at yourselves and your lodge. Improve it. Make it worth attending.