Freemasonry/Shrine

[Gary2112]

The Blue Lodge has a man for several months at minimum before they can leave it behind in favor of being 'only' a Shriner. If your lodge isn't enticing enough to make these men want to be active in your lodge don't blame Shriners. Look at yourselves and your lodge. Improve it. Make it worth attending.

Respectfully, I dont think a couple of months is near enough time before the Shrine steals away a new Mason.

If the Lodge isnt enticing enough, why dont those "Shriners" return to their Lodges and bring the fun with them.

Using an excuse that Blue Lodge is not enticing is a cheap cop out. If a Mason doesnt like the experience, its up to HIM to invoke change. If you dont no one will.

 

[Winter]

It is not about hate. It is about reality. A Grand Master can call you at home, and tell you not to have breakfast with your Masonic friends. It happened to me. It can happen to you. (See my posting, where I tell what happened to me in Kentucky)

Sorry Charles. But you are wrong. A Grand Master has exactly as much authority as the Masonic Law in his jurisdiction says that he has. If you followed an illegal order from a Grand Master what does that make you?

 

[cemab4y]

Although I have been a Kentucky Mason since 1982, I am not an expert on every aspect of Kentucky Masonic law. I wanted to have breakfast with my masonic friends. I was told by the Grand Master that I could not meet with any Masonic brothers like this. Iwas told that I would be brought up on Masonic charges if I did. The GM said that someone could get into an accident, on the way to the restaurant, that the Grand Lodge could be sued by the accident victims. I did what I was told. I never had any breakfast meetings.


I was told by the Grand Lodge not to have any contact with any Masons outside of the state of Kentucky, to get advice on how to set up a bank account. I did what I was told.

I was told by the Grand Lodge of Washington state, and the Grand Lodge of New York , that I could not ask any advice about Masonic law (in their states). I was told to only have contacts with the Grand Lodge of my own state of membership.

These Grand Lodges and Grand Masters have ordered me around in the past. I am not an expert on the laws, rules and constitution of the Grand Lodges of New York and Washington. When I am ordered not to have any contact, I just "suck it up" and do what I am told.

Were these orders "illegal"? I don't know. How am I to be an expert on the laws, rules and Grand Lodge constitution of states where I do not hold membership?

I preferred just to avoid the hassle, and the possibility of being tried Masonically. I just walked away from these three situations.

 

[dajofa]

I guess from your GL point of view you should not attend Lodges out of your state and in foreign contries! The beauty of the Craft is to share our individual and combined knowledge. It seems that your GL is taking a very singular position! We are in the Craft to learn from about each other.

Hopefully this is a short term issue for you!

 

[Winter]

Although I have been a Kentucky Mason since 1982, I am not an expert on every aspect of Kentucky Masonic law. I wanted to have breakfast with my masonic friends. I was told by the Grand Master that I could not meet with any Masonic brothers like this. Iwas told that I would be brought up on Masonic charges if I did. The GM said that someone could get into an accident, on the way to the restaurant, that the Grand Lodge could be sued by the accident victims. I did what I was told. I never had any breakfast meetings.
I was told by the Grand Lodge not to have any contact with any Masons outside of the state of Kentucky, to get advice on how to set up a bank account. I did what I was told.
I was told by the Grand Lodge of Washington state, and the Grand Lodge of New York , that I could not ask any advice about Masonic law (in their states). I was told to only have contacts with the Grand Lodge of my own state of membership.
These Grand Lodges and Grand Masters have ordered me around in the past. I am not an expert on the laws, rules and constitution of the Grand Lodges of New York and Washington. When I am ordered not to have any contact, I just "suck it up" and do what I am told.
Were these orders "illegal"? I don't know. How am I to be an expert on the laws, rules and Grand Lodge constitution of states where I do not hold membership?
I preferred just to avoid the hassle, and the possibility of being tried Masonically. I just walked away from these three situations.

Maybe you should take some time to familiarize yourself with the laws of the jurisdictions in which you hold membership so you actually know when a member of the GL is giving you an illegal order.

 

[cemab4y]

I have never been a member of a lodge in Washington state. Since I am forbidden from having any contact with Masons outside of my state (to ask for advice or guidance). How am I to find out if the order given to me by the Grand Secretary of Washington state was illegal or not?

 

[Gary2112]

Um... Please dont take this as sarcasm.. But aren't Freemasons supposed to be free thinkers?

If an order given sounds unlawful, it probably is. Common sense comes into play here. I guess it isnt so common.

What order would sound valid that prohibits you from talking to other recognized Masons?

 

[goomba]

We have contact with Masons outside of our jurisdiction via this website on a daily basis.

 

[cemab4y]

Um... Please dont take this as sarcasm.. But aren't Freemasons supposed to be free thinkers?

If an order given sounds unlawful, it probably is. Common sense comes into play here. I guess it isnt so common.

What order would sound valid that prohibits you from talking to other recognized Masons?

I am free to talk with Masons from outside of the state of Kentucky, without restriction. What I am prohibited from, is getting advice and guidance from Grand Lodges, that I am not a member of.

I was in Iraq, and a Mason from Washington state, (A Fellow Craft), was interested in how he could get his Master Mason degree from a New York chartered lodge in Iraq. I contact the Grand Lodges in Washington and New York to find out what the procedure was to get "courtesy work". I needed advice on how to get the process started, and how to get the paperwork submitted.

I was told by the Grand Lodges of New York and Washington, that I was prohibited from contacting them, and getting such advice. I received a blistering letter from the Grand Lodge of Kentucky, informing me, that I was NOT to contact any Grand Lodge anywhere, under any circumstances, and that ALL such inquiries had to be made only to my Grand Lodge (KY).

I am not an expert on the regulations of these Grand Lodges, so I just did what I was told.

 

[Gary2112]

I am free to talk with Masons from outside of the state of Kentucky, without restriction. What I am prohibited from, is getting advice and guidance from Grand Lodges, that I am not a member of.

I was in Iraq, and a Mason from Washington state, (A Fellow Craft), was interested in how he could get his Master Mason degree from a New York chartered lodge in Iraq. I contact the Grand Lodges in Washington and New York to find out what the procedure was to get "courtesy work". I needed advice on how to get the process started, and how to get the paperwork submitted.

I was told by the Grand Lodges of New York and Washington, that I was prohibited from contacting them, and getting such advice. I received a blistering letter from the Grand Lodge of Kentucky, informing me, that I was NOT to contact any Grand Lodge anywhere, under any circumstances, and that ALL such inquiries had to be made only to my Grand Lodge (KY).

I am not an expert on the regulations of these Grand Lodges, so I just did what I was told.

Oh, I see. This is a situation where you should have communicated your needs THROUGH your current Grand Lodge (KY) to the other Grand Lodges instead of direct communication with them. That makes much more sense to me now.

As far as the GM telling you that you can't have a breakfast with a group of Brothers is still silly to me though.

 

[Ashlar2006]

I am not an expert on the situation in Texas, all I know is what I read on the net, and what was posted in the Masons of Texas discussion forum. I am certain that there is a "backstory". I do know that when the GM of Texas was asked why he shut down the motorcycle club, he replied "Because I can".

now, as to

If you wish to have meetings with your masonic friends, and raise a glass or two, I wish you well. Just don't be surprised if the GM calls you and tells you to cease and desist.

I will be glad to provide an example. It happened to me. I was living in Bowling Green KY. I wanted to meet twice a month, and have breakfast with my Masonic friends. I went to some of the lodges in the area, and discussed having breakfasts with anyone who was interested. A past Grand Master of Masons in Kentucky (the late Marlin White) was present at one of the lodge meetings where I discussed the breakfasts. He called the current Grand Master (Bill Hinton), and told him about my plans.

The current Grand Master of Masons in Kentucky (Bill Hinton) called me at home, and told me to cease and desist. I was NOT to have any meetings of any kind with my Masonic friends under any circumstances. He said that someone could be driving to a meeting, and possibly have an accident, and the Grand Lodge of Kentucky would be subject to a lawsuit. He told me directly that no meetings of any kind could ever take place under circumstances, and that if I had a breakfast with my masonic friends, that I would be subject to Masonic discipline, and be suspended or expelled from the Grand Lodge of Kentucky.

It happened to me. It can happen to anyone.

And the Grand Master OVERSTEPPED his bounds . And I would have went ahead and had my breakfast with my brethren because he did not have a (Masonic) legal leg to stand on .

ETA: And I know the Constitution . It can be read for free on-line , every lodge has a copy in the lodge room and/or it can be purchased from the Grand Lodge , so NO brother can plead ignorance to the laws , rules and regulations of our jurisdiction . There is NO excuse for not knowing the rules and no Mason may claim "I didn't know !"

 

[Zack]

Oh, I see. This is a situation where you should have communicated your needs THROUGH your current Grand Lodge (KY) to the other Grand Lodges instead of direct communication with them. That makes much more sense to me now.

It may take awhile and some judicous questioning but then you "get the rest of the story".

 

[Ashlar2006]

The Blue Lodge has a man for several months at minimum before they can leave it behind in favor of being 'only' a Shriner. If your lodge isn't enticing enough to make these men want to be active in your lodge don't blame Shriners. Look at yourselves and your lodge. Improve it. Make it worth attending.

I am sorry , but I do not buy it . One of the biggest enticements that has been related to me is that they can drink alcohol at the Shrine . I had a couple of my officers who would attend a Shrine club meeting before coming to lodge and they showed up reeking of beer and about half in the bag and I told them to go home and sober up , they were not allowed to sit in lodge (half)drunk . IF this is what entices them to be active Shriners instead of active in their Craft lodges , then they became Masons for.... honestly , I do not know why they became Masons .

 

[2SONDAD]

I am sorry , but I do not buy it . One of the biggest enticements that has been related to me is that they can drink alcohol at the Shrine . I had a couple of my officers who would attend a Shrine club meeting before coming to lodge and they showed up reeking of beer and about half in the bag and I told them to go home and sober up , they were not allowed to sit in lodge (half)drunk . IF this is what entices them to be active Shriners instead of active in their Craft lodges , then they became Masons for.... honestly , I do not know why they became Masons .

Very interesting.

I have some interest in the Shrine because of the work they do. I also have an interest in Scottish Rite and York Rite. I can promise you though, that I will never give up Craft Lodge. I really don't care if I have a drink at a meeting or not, but I would care if someone showed up half in the bag.

 

[Ashlar2006]

I will be honest , I know some who are in the Shrine because of the hospital and the kids and do not partake in the parties and drinking but they are in the minority . I know many who can care less about that , they are in it for the "fun" , The drinking and the parties and readily admit it . Heck , some even brag about all the drinking they do out there .

Personally , I would not care what they do but our name is tied to them and many of these parties are open to the general public and if you have seen what I have and what others have you would be questioning the Shrine also .

 

[cemab4y]

Here is a "cut and paste" from the Grand Secretary of the Grand Lodge of Florida:

(quote)
Grand SecretaryGrand Lodge of Florida F&AM
Masonic Protocol Reminder to Florida Members: In accordance with proper Masonic Protocol, relative to all Masonic business, members residing within the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons in the State of Florida are strictly forbidden to correspond, contact or communicate directly, with any other Grand Jurisdiction or Lodge within any other Masonic Jurisdiction, by any available method (including email or phone calls), except through the office of the Grand Secretary of the Grand Lodge, F.& A.M. in the State of Florida ( unless you are a dual member of that Lodge ), or by expressed permission of each Grand Jurisdiction.
(end quote)

 

[Winter]

Here is a "cut and paste" from the Grand Secretary of the Grand Lodge of Florida:

(quote)
Grand SecretaryGrand Lodge of Florida F&AM
Masonic Protocol Reminder to Florida Members: In accordance with proper Masonic Protocol, relative to all Masonic business, members residing within the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons in the State of Florida are strictly forbidden to correspond, contact or communicate directly, with any other Grand Jurisdiction or Lodge within any other Masonic Jurisdiction, by any available method (including email or phone calls), except through the office of the Grand Secretary of the Grand Lodge, F.& A.M. in the State of Florida ( unless you are a dual member of that Lodge ), or by expressed permission of each Grand Jurisdiction.
(end quote)

Pretty much every jurisdiction has that clause. You, as a Mason, cannot contact the Lodge or Grand Lodge in a official capacity outside of your jurisdiction. That correspondence must go through your Grand Lodge. It does not say you cannot have a Mason from another jurisdiction do your taxes or have any other such contact.

 

[Bill_F]

Here is a "cut and paste" from the Grand Secretary of the Grand Lodge of Florida:

(quote)
Grand SecretaryGrand Lodge of Florida F&AM
Masonic Protocol Reminder to Florida Members: In accordance with proper Masonic Protocol, relative to all Masonic business, members residing within the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons in the State of Florida are strictly forbidden to correspond, contact or communicate directly, with any other Grand Jurisdiction or Lodge within any other Masonic Jurisdiction, by any available method (including email or phone calls), except through the office of the Grand Secretary of the Grand Lodge, F.& A.M. in the State of Florida ( unless you are a dual member of that Lodge ), or by expressed permission of each Grand Jurisdiction.
(end quote)

I had heard that the above was kind of a "unwritten rule", but I guess it IS in writing. Personally, I think as a Mason of a certain state, you are somewhat a representative of Masons of that state. So, your grand Lodge might have a concern about the correspondence.
Basically, If I disagree with a Edict or ruling by the Grand Lodge of say, New Jersey, and I take it upon myself to write them a letter calling them Un-Masonic, etc.. It could reflect upon all the Masons of Florida. Right or wrong, it would.

 

[Ashlar2006]

Here is a "cut and paste" from the Grand Secretary of the Grand Lodge of Florida:

(quote)
Grand SecretaryGrand Lodge of Florida F&AM
Masonic Protocol Reminder to Florida Members: In accordance with proper Masonic Protocol, relative to all Masonic business, members residing within the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons in the State of Florida are strictly forbidden to correspond, contact or communicate directly, with any other Grand Jurisdiction or Lodge within any other Masonic Jurisdiction, by any available method (including email or phone calls), except through the office of the Grand Secretary of the Grand Lodge, F.& A.M. in the State of Florida ( unless you are a dual member of that Lodge ), or by expressed permission of each Grand Jurisdiction.
(end quote)

And !? This rule makes PERFECT sense . Like in the military , there is proper protocol and a chain of command , and personally I can appreciate that .

 

[Ashlar2006]

I guess from your GL point of view you should not attend Lodges out of your state and in foreign contries! The beauty of the Craft is to share our individual and combined knowledge. It seems that your GL is taking a very singular position! We are in the Craft to learn from about each other.

Hopefully this is a short term issue for you!

No , that is not what MY Grand Lodge's point of view . There are proper protocols and a chain of command to follow .

Do you think anyone and everyone should be allowed to just call any Grand Master in any jurisdiction willy nilly ? Do know how many phone calls a GM has to field in any given day by the members of his own jurisdiction , let alone having Joe Blow calling him from across the country ? This is why we have these rules in place , to control the flow of questions , requests , remarks etc; etc; .

And as Winter stated most all Grand Lodges have this very rule in place , you may want to take a look at your own constitution yourself before taking a stand against MY Grand Lodge .