Osama bin Laden killed in shootout, Obama says

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Gary

Guest
I think what you consider celebration by having a beer is being exaggerated by delusions of street parties having the same meaning in this debate. Your argument with John is not productive.

In short, I see both sides of this debate, and both have valid points. Let it rest gentlemen.
 

Duncan1574

Lodge Chaplain & arms dealer
You speak of splinter cells. Funny thing though...You know how to kill a starfish? You don't cut off the arms...You stab it in the center of it's body.

Bin Laden was the inspiration and center mass of their jihad towards the west. He obviously didn't run every aspect, but he was their guru. We stuck the starfish, but haven't terminated it's existence yet.

The goal is to disrupt their central organization, and the cells will have trouble re-organizing their operations. it's easier to extinguish splinter cells than it is to kill of a large force. Basic tactics 101...Sun Tzu- The Art of War
My point is that there is no central organization, they share a name, but not a command structure, the splinter groups are self-sustaining, self-directed, that is their advantage.
 
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Gary

Guest
My point is that there is no central organization, they share a name, but not a command structure, the splinter groups are self-sustaining, self-directed, that is their advantage.
To a point I agree. My comment was to point out that even though they have no central organization, they still have a "spiritual" focus on their leader OBL. Now that he's removed from the picture, they aren't as strong as a cohesive unit as they once were. They are fragmented gorilla groups now without a main source to provide their tactics.

Short term advantage for them if they can't have any form of unified command. the lack of that will prove a weakness long term.
 

Bob Franks

Past District Deputy Grand Lecturer
Again, if you can't see the difference, I really can't help you. Mourn his passing. I won't stop you. You'll get some odd looks if you do it on my base, though.
Never said I mourned his passing.
I said it is tasteless to celebrate any death of a person.

Please don't put words in my mouth that I did not say.

This can easily become a situation of "if you're not with me, you're against me!" and we can lose our Masonic tolerance for differing views.

S&F
 
M

Martlet

Guest
Never said I mourned his passing.
I said it is tasteless to celebrate any death of a person.

Please don't put words in my mouth that I did not say.

This can easily become a situation of "if you're not with me, you're against me!" and we can lose our Masonic tolerance for differing views.

S&F
I absolutely tolerate your views, even though I don't understand them. There are no posts here calling your views "un-Masonic", barbaric, etc. It's those of you who call it "distasteful" to cheer at the removal of an evil murderer of innocents that show a lack of tolerance.
 
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Gary

Guest
I absolutely tolerate your views, even though I don't understand them. There are no posts here calling your views "un-Masonic", barbaric, etc. It's those of you who call it "distasteful" to cheer at the removal of an evil murderer of innocents that show a lack of tolerance.
You are arguing semantics. Are we happy justice was served? of course. Are we cheering because someone got murdered? No, because that makes us no better than those we condemn for the same sort of thing.

Frankly, I find that you are argumentative, and are causing discord on this forum. You obviously don't understand what tolerance means if you are willing to continue arguing with those who's views you claim to be tolerant of. While you are entitled to your opinion, you aren't going to push the buttons of others for the sake of supporting your personal agenda.

Either agree to disagree with the opinions posted, or stop posting. Your choice. I asked you nicely before, now I'm telling you.
 

CoachN

Builder Builder
Brothers,

A little Masonic Instruction for you (thanks to the gentle assist from Martlet.)

I absolutely tolerate your views, even though I don't understand them.
Martlet does not tolerate the poster's views. His attacks upon the poster show that Martlet both resist and reject these views.
There are no posts here calling your views "un-Masonic", barbaric, etc.
Yes Brothers. This is true. Equally true are Martlet's put downs that indicate equally barbaric and unmasonic behavior.
It's those of you who call it "distasteful" to cheer at the removal of an evil murderer of innocents that show a lack of tolerance.
The spin that Martlet is putting on this, as in the choice of his words and his chosen directions, are misleading put downs designed to shame unnecessarily.
Again, if you can't see the difference, I really can't help you.
Brothers, this is a dismissal. The fact is, Martlet writes these Brothers off because they disagree with him. I see that they do indeed see the difference but it doesn't agree with his view, so he dismisses them.
Mourn his passing. I won't stop you. You'll get some odd looks if you do it on my base, though.
The inability to see another's prospective appears to be Martlet's shortcoming as well. Should posters dismiss him as he has dismissed them?
It's not a spin at all. If you don't celebrate his death, why wouldn't you mourn it? Is it just that you don't care that he's dead? If so, then what's the difference? Using your logic, it's just as bad to be indifferent.
Brothers, for Logic to have any validity, the premises must have sound foundations. Martlet's questions depict an either/or dualistic view. There is more here than his black and white approach.
I recognize we share a creator. What does that have to do with anything?
Shall I default here to using Martlet's dismissal of choice, "...if you can't see the difference, I really can't help you" as an adequate response to his question? If not, how shall we go about educating Martlet as to his inability to comprehend the connection?
He was a terrorist. The creator gave us free will. He chose to kill innocents. I celebrate the removal of a man when his death saves innocent life.
Martlet wants so much to be honored for his choice in this matter yet, he refuse to respect and honor those who experience sadness as a result of realizing that having to take actions to do this was because all other civil responses failed.

This refusal to give to others what one demands from others is called, "a double standard." It is also something that should be divested during a Mason's EA Work.
Weep for him. It matters not to me.
This is difficult to believe. The voracity of Martlet's responses tell everyone here otherwise.
Really? You don't see the difference between people celebrating justice brought to a genocidal mass murderer and people cheering at the murder of thousands of innocents?
Brothers, please observe that this is a set up question for the put down that follows.
If not, I think your perspective gene is missing.
Notice the put down that follows the set up statement. This is an excellent lesson in both Morality and Rhetoric. The Morality displayed is one of a double standard. Martlet has put our Brother down and accuses him of lacking prospective, yet does Martlet show this admirable trait in his responses?
I couldn't disagree more. I take great pleasure knowing he was brought to justice for his crimes against humanity, and is no longer able to plot the deaths of innocents.
Brothers, I do not believe schadenfreude is a Masonic Virtue.

Respectfully submitted to you my Brothers,

Bro. Coach N
 
I am thrilled this devil was wiped from the face of the earth. I did not go out on the streets and celebrate, because I believe there is too much work still to be done, too many men and women still in harms way, and so much more evil willing to walk in his footsteps. Still, I do not begrudge those who want to celebrate it. Our country has been fighting this war for 10 years (it took us 3 years and 9 months to defeat the Germans and Japanese). Many, many people have had their lives disrupted, whether it be the death or injury of a loved one or the seperation of family, mothers and fathers, sisters and brothers being shipped half way around the world to fight a seemingly never ending war that this devil was instrumental in causing............no, I will not publicly celebrate the death of this monster, but I certainly won't, nor do I have the right, to criticize those who do.
 
M

Martlet

Guest
Brothers,

A little Masonic Instruction for you (thanks to the gentle assist from Martlet.)


Martlet does not tolerate the poster's views. His attacks upon the poster show that Martlet both resist and reject these views.

Yes Brothers. This is true. Equally true are Martlet's put downs that indicate equally barbaric and unmasonic behavior.

The spin that Martlet is putting on this, as in the choice of his words and his chosen directions, are misleading put downs designed to shame unnecessarily.

Brothers, this is a dismissal. The fact is, Martlet writes these Brothers off because they disagree with him. I see that they do indeed see the difference but it doesn't agree with his view, so he dismisses them.

The inability to see another's prospective appears to be Martlet's shortcoming as well. Should posters dismiss him as he has dismissed them?

Brothers, for Logic to have any validity, the premises must have sound foundations. Martlet's questions depict an either/or dualistic view. There is more here than his black and white approach.

Shall I default here to using Martlet's dismissal of choice, "...if you can't see the difference, I really can't help you" as an adequate response to his question? If not, how shall we go about educating Martlet as to his inability to comprehend the connection?

Martlet wants so much to be honored for his choice in this matter yet, he refuse to respect and honor those who experience sadness as a result of realizing that having to take actions to do this was because all other civil responses failed.

This refusal to give to others what one demands from others is called, "a double standard." It is also something that should be divested during a Mason's EA Work.

This is difficult to believe. The voracity of Martlet's responses tell everyone here otherwise.

Brothers, please observe that this is a set up question for the put down that follows.

Notice the put down that follows the set up statement. This is an excellent lesson in both Morality and Rhetoric. The Morality displayed is one of a double standard. Martlet has put our Brother down and accuses him of lacking prospective, yet does Martlet show this admirable trait in his responses?

Brothers, I do not believe schadenfreude is a Masonic Virtue.

Respectfully submitted to you my Brothers,

Bro. Coach N
That's awesome. You've provided a great example in support of my position.

Continue mourning terrorists. I won't stop you. My brothers and I will continue to "murder" them.
 
Martlet..... allow me to "Whisper" some wise council in your ear and give it a rest.... even those that may see where you are coming from are getting tired of it.....have you ever heard the term "Beating a dead horse".......
 
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Gary

Guest
That's awesome. You've provided a great example in support of my position.

Continue mourning terrorists. I won't stop you. My brothers and I will continue to "murder" them.
I don't see how "you" are doing much of anything being that you are posting this drivel from the Salem Mass. area. I asked you once, then told you to cease. Now... How about this. BANNED.

We don't take kindly to your un-Masonic attitude. Defending freedom and serving justice is one thing. Gloating about being a murderer is another. Find another forum in which to troll.
 
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Gary

Guest
Unfortunately yes it did. I take no pleasure in doing these sorts of things. I won't sit by and allow anyone to just pop in here and intentionally start trouble.

We have a really nice forum here with a great bunch of members. The moderators here intend to keep it that way.

Besides, any topic we discuss never needs to get nasty regardless if we agree on it or not. We have had differences of opinion before. That's the beauty of a discussion.
 
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Gary

Guest
Well said Brother. Jason doesn't post these types of threads to be controversial. He posts them because he knows that even if there is a debate, we can go about it rationally and potentially learn something from it.
 
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Gary

Guest
I agree. If I don't agree with a topic, or have something constructive to say I don't post. ;)
 

jason

Seanchaí
Staff member
Well said Brother. Jason doesn't post these types of threads to be controversial. He posts them because he knows that even if there is a debate, we can go about it rationally and potentially learn something from it.
I figure we are all adults, and most of us are Masons, we should be able discuss important news like this. I do try and stay away from posting political threads, but felt this is fairly large news.
 
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