What do you want out of Masonry ?

[Windrider]

ashlar, i'm 18, i get initiated on the 21'st of this month, when they asked me why do i want to join for the interview part, the first thing I said was i was to learn and better myself as a man, deep down i want to learn, i want to learn everything there is, thats why im joining, bettering myself will come with learning, also, a quick question to you ashlar because i see you all over these threads so i believe you know a lot, I've read/heard PA masons are different? how so? like i was reading the thread about "are you a traveling man", "are you traveling east" "how old is your grandmother" , and no masons i know here ever heard those, is there a reason

I know you addressed this to Ashlar but I'll hijack this thread, too

Those questions are just fun things Masons came up with to be able to ask a Man if he is a Mason outside of a lodge, in public. They are kind of like the passwords spies supposedly use where one says, "Nice Day." and if the other guy doesn't answer with "Yes, but it feels like snow." the first spy walks on.

 

[Windrider]

No one would ever know if they learned anything or not. they kept their pie holes shut. Kinda silly on a discussion forum eh?

It takes a certain amount of courage to engage somebody as knowledgeable as Winter in a discussion. I've seen people get shredded who haven't got their facts right. Not necessarily by Winter and never intentionally but it does happen.

 

[Gary2112]

I must have big brass cajones then. Instead of looking at the facts being corrected as a shredding, why not consider it as a learning opportunity? I've engaged people more learned than our Bro. Winter, and looked at those discussions as a learning experience not a source of humiliation or degradation. Winter is a man of strong opinion, but I will say that he does his homework before he calls someone out. When he is wrong, he admits it publicly.

This points to the art of rhetoric. None of us are born with it. It is something that we cultivate. Personally, I choose to try and soar with eagles rather than to hang with turkeys. Shoot for the stars and you may be surprised what you can accomplish. I've been shot down too, so I know what it's like. At least I'm willing to keep trying. If I quit out of fear of more knowledgeable Masons, I would have never had my work published along side of theirs in publications.

 

[Ashlar2006]

ashlar, i'm 18, i get initiated on the 21'st of this month, when they asked me why do i want to join for the interview part, the first thing I said was i was to learn and better myself as a man, deep down i want to learn, i want to learn everything there is, thats why im joining, bettering myself will come with learning, also, a quick question to you ashlar because i see you all over these threads so i believe you know a lot, I've read/heard PA masons are different? how so? like i was reading the thread about "are you a traveling man", "are you traveling east" "how old is your grandmother" , and no masons i know here ever heard those, is there a reason?

As Windrider stated , these are just "fun" little questions that members came up when addressing other Masons in public . For example the reply to "how old is your Grandmother?" in my jurisdiction would be your lodge (name &) number .

 

[Ashlar2006]

. Winter is a man of strong opinion, .

Surely you jest !?!?

 

[Gary2112]

Surely you jest !?!?

When it comes to Bro. Winter, I never jest.

 

[Effingham]

Ya never jest WHAT?

 

[Duncan1574]

ashlar, i'm 18, i get initiated on the 21'st of this month, when they asked me why do i want to join for the interview part, the first thing I said was i was to learn and better myself as a man, deep down i want to learn, i want to learn everything there is, thats why im joining, bettering myself will come with learning, also, a quick question to you ashlar because i see you all over these threads so i believe you know a lot, I've read/heard PA masons are different? how so? like i was reading the thread about "are you a traveling man", "are you traveling east" "how old is your grandmother" , and no masons i know here ever heard those, is there a reason?

Josh, Many Masons, especially the ones that know of you, will not to comment about those things because they KNOW you're not a Mason yet. Wait for the tidal shift after your EA.

 

[Duncan1574]

Ya never jest WHAT?

Certainly you jest.

NO! And don't call me Shirley.

 

[Effingham]

 

[Windrider]

I must have big brass cajones then. Instead of looking at the facts being corrected as a shredding, why not consider it as a learning opportunity? I've engaged people more learned than our Bro. Winter, and looked at those discussions as a learning experience not a source of humiliation or degradation. Winter is a man of strong opinion, but I will say that he does his homework before he calls someone out. When he is wrong, he admits it publicly.

This points to the art of rhetoric. None of us are born with it. It is something that we cultivate. Personally, I choose to try and soar with eagles rather than to hang with turkeys. Shoot for the stars and you may be surprised what you can accomplish. I've been shot down too, so I know what it's like. At least I'm willing to keep trying. If I quit out of fear of more knowledgeable Masons, I would have never had my work published along side of theirs in publications.

To me, it's not a matter of "cajones", it's a matter of picking your battles. I was told just this evening that I could no longer bring candidates I sponsor to other lodges to see the degrees they have received from the sidelines. This is from the man who is presumed to be our next Master. I wasn't prepared to offer any contrary evidence even though I believe he is wrong, so I asked him to send me what he believes proves his point and I will do my research. I plan to continue to bring candidates to see degrees as I have a note from the Grand Secretary saying I can.

This is a battle worth fighting, in my opinion. A deep discussion about something said by Albert Pike can safely be left to those who enjoy such things.

 

[goomba]

To me, it's not a matter of "cajones", it's a matter of picking your battles. I was told just this evening that I could no longer bring candidates I sponsor to other lodges to see the degrees they have received from the sidelines. This is from the man who is presumed to be our next Master. I wasn't prepared to offer any contrary evidence even though I believe he is wrong, so I asked him to send me what he believes proves his point and I will do my research. I plan to continue to bring candidates to see degrees as I have a note from the Grand Secretary saying I can.

This is a battle worth fighting, in my opinion. A deep discussion about something said by Albert Pike can safely be left to those who enjoy such things.

I want to make sure I understand this. He doesn't want an EA to watch the EA degree?!?

 

[Ashlar2006]

To me, it's not a matter of "cajones", it's a matter of picking your battles. I was told just this evening that I could no longer bring candidates I sponsor to other lodges to see the degrees they have received from the sidelines. This is from the man who is presumed to be our next Master. I wasn't prepared to offer any contrary evidence even though I believe he is wrong, so I asked him to send me what he believes proves his point and I will do my research. I plan to continue to bring candidates to see degrees as I have a note from the Grand Secretary saying I can.

This is a battle worth fighting, in my opinion. A deep discussion about something said by Albert Pike can safely be left to those who enjoy such things.

Does the "Master" not like you , or is he allowing that power go to his head ?

 

[Windrider]

I want to make sure I understand this. He doesn't want an EA to watch the EA degree?!?

That is correct.

 

[Ashlar2006]

Makes no sense to me . We push our EAs' to go out and visit other EA degrees (with a MM obviously ) .

 

[Windrider]

Does the "Master" not like you , or is he allowing that power go to his head ?

He is a very active Mason. He has risen to the East faster than anyone can remember. We get along fine, but have a strong difference of opinion on this point. He feels that the education of the candidates should be handled within the lodge and the privilege of travelling is reserved for Master Masons. He has implemented along with other knowledgeable men the Cable-tow Brothers program for education designed by our Grand Lodge. He may very well be right as he says he found an edict from the 1950s saying just that.

My opinion is that seeing the degrees from the sidelines as soon as possible after receiving them allows the candidate to better absorb the lessons. It also shows him that he has brothers everywhere he goes and allows him to make new friends.

If elected, I will be following this brother to the Oriental Chair.

 

[Ashlar2006]

Hmmm , An EA simply watching an EA degree at another lodge does not mean that the other lodge is educating them , more so for jurisdictions that have set rituals with no variations in how they are conferred . They simply get to see it from a different point of view , if you know what I mean , and it DOES help them absorb the lessons contained within the degree . I do not know about you all , but as the candidate , the degree was a whirl wind of information thrown at me that was confusing . When I actually viewed them from the sidelines did I then start picking up on things I missed .

But it is not my lodge or jurisdiction so I do not have a dog in that fight .

I can see his point of view to a certain extent , we want to educate new Masons on how we do things , but we have no qualms when a brother from another lodge wishes to enlighten them on some subject . It takes a village , and we are all Masons in the same jurisdiction .

 

[Ashlar2006]

To expand on that , we do have reservations about taking our new EAs' and FCs' to out of state lodges . I have sat in lodges for degrees in two neighboring states and let me tell you , how they do it and how we do it can and is very different .

 

[Gary2112]

To me, it's not a matter of "cajones", it's a matter of picking your battles. I was told just this evening that I could no longer bring candidates I sponsor to other lodges to see the degrees they have received from the sidelines. This is from the man who is presumed to be our next Master. I wasn't prepared to offer any contrary evidence even though I believe he is wrong, so I asked him to send me what he believes proves his point and I will do my research. I plan to continue to bring candidates to see degrees as I have a note from the Grand Secretary saying I can.

This is a battle worth fighting, in my opinion. A deep discussion about something said by Albert Pike can safely be left to those who enjoy such things.

Picking your battles? Now you have me scratching my head. I don't see a conversation between Brothers as a battle. It should never be reduced to that level. That's not to say that we don't occasionally neglect our Compasses, I've been guilty of that too. That makes us human, and as such our Ashlars are not perfect.

While your situation at Lodge is definitely a battle you should fight, I will say that your last sentence pretty much sums up your opinion on deep discussion. And BTW- Albert Pike is NOT the only topic that can be discussed. Actually, he is mentioned, but rarely discussed in detail here. I guess the Middle Chamber lecture is nothing more than a waste of time on most. That's truly sad.

Without understanding and discussion of it's lessons we are only creating a fraternity of parrots and apron wearers. Case in point, your situation at your Lodge with those EA's. I wonder if your SW even understands the lectures. If he did, he would be encouraging your attempts to expose these brothers to the very thing that will provide them tools to become not only Mason's, but most importantly better men.

So in closing I'll say this... A lack of willingness to go out of your comfort zone is a personal choice, but when a Lodge does not offer such things as these discussions, where else can a Brother turn to get human interaction and discourse? The Masonic Forums... That's where. If Freemason's like you are capable of such discussion but refuse, who are we helping? Certainly not ourselves, or those Brothers who need to learn to think, analyze, and learn from our rituals and the deeper lessons that they plainly spell out.

 

[goomba]

Having new brothers travel to see degrees gets them (and us/me) into the habit of traveling. It introduces us to our brotherhood, by showing that these men whom you have never met are your brothers.