MM Topic The song remains the same...

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Gary

Guest
Yup! While I'm certainly not a Pike fanatic, but I have come to enjoy reading his work and comparing it to others. It's interesting to see the parallels that are in play from his time and ours.

I'm considering writing a paper about it actually. This discussion thread is actually a clustering exercise. The participants here are helping me gather my information. :D
 
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removed12612

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One day ( after I finish my math class for sure)...I will read more of his works.... I do enjoy fiction:p:D...LOL/JK.....

I am sure a side by side comparison of then and now would be very interesting.....

BTW.... nice little prop to Led Zepplin in the thread title;)
 
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removed12612

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I wonder if Pike favored the "Scottish Rite" ritual used in some Lodges in the New Orleans area over the the "York" versions..... Would Pike be one considered an "Ancient" or "Modern"....... or did he just like to keep the pot stirred up a little for the sake of masonic discussions.
 
Ashlar2006

Ashlar2006

Masonic Mafia
Winter said:
Of course! I have long said that we need to go back into the shadows. This business of becoming mainstream and publicly acceptable has led to nothing more than us continually chipping away at the foundations of Masonry in order to make it "fit" polite society.
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Agreed , do away with these open houses , TV/radio/billboard ads , slam our damn doors and quit worrying about getting more members and trying to appease outsiders .

I have spent my entire time in Freemasonry studying my own ritual , which IS Preston/Webb , that I have yet to take the time to study other ritual(s) . So I can not comment on Pike's words .

What I find sad is that some Masons want to better Freemasonry , but instead of concentrating on the studying (not memorizing) of ritual/symbolism they want to better it by license plates , on-line petitions , web sites , parades , commercials and other trivial things that have nothing to do with building better Masons .
 
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Gary

Guest
Duncan1574 said:
So we are your . .
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Yup! :D

Ashlar2006 said:
Agreed , do away with these open houses , TV/radio/billboard ads , slam our damn doors and quit worrying about getting more members and trying to appease outsiders .

I have spent my entire time in Freemasonry studying my own ritual , which IS Preston/Webb , that I have yet to take the time to study other ritual(s) . So I can not comment on Pike's words .

What I find sad is that some Masons want to better Freemasonry , but instead of concentrating on the studying (not memorizing) of ritual/symbolism they want to better it by license plates , on-line petitions , web sites , parades , commercials and other trivial things that have nothing to do with building better Masons .
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I have those same feelings. As far as comparison of whose ritual is better or what not... Sure Pike was upset that things were getting easy for the masses. Even today you see ODC's, GL's waiving the need to do memorization work, the allowing the ritual to be read from a book in open Lodge. We have reduced the number of intelligent Masons who are here for knowledge and betterment of themselves for the sake of increasing the number of dues paying Freemasons. Infuriating ain't it! See? Pike wasn't so off base on this.

But I think that's not really the point I was trying to make here.

It is important for us to study the ritual we have, and make use of it's Symbolism. We literally need to preserve it or we will lose it forever.

Someone asked where the Knights of the North went.... They said they would be back. The truth is, that they never left. I believe that their ranks are growing. You don't rock the boat like they did, and not take cover from reprisal for not conforming to the norm. You fight the war covertly, and you practice Masonry in the circle who accepts it.
 
Winter

Winter

I've been here before
The comparison of the rituals is important. If you look at the Emulation Rite you will see how much was left out of the Preston/Webb.

Example, Preston/Webb Ritual has six working tools. Two in each degree. There are actually 9 working tools. Three in each degree. But you never learn about these without going outside of Preston/Webb with few exceptions.
 
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Gary

Guest
I guess the next logical question is what were Preston and Webb thinking when they decided to omit those tools and change the ritual so dramatically?

There has got to be some documentation somewhere that explains this. Surely the majority of Masons back then weren't ignorant to the importance of preserving the ritual. there must have been some discussion/debate/argument about it before hand.
 
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removed12612

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With Pike deep involvement in the SR, I wonder if he support the Emulation Ritual or that of the ritual used for the three craft degrees practiced by the "SR" or "Red" Lodges such as that used in a few lodges in the New Orleans area.

Second, (Winter you may have this answer...or a good lie for me:p;)) during the time period in which masonry began its foot hold in America, there was tons of immigrants that came here that had practiced the Emulation Ritual but it never stuck around.....why was Preston/Webb the ritual of choice....
 
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removed12612

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Gary said:
I guess the next logical question is what were Preston and Webb thinking when they decided to omit those tools and change the ritual so dramatically?

There has got to be some documentation somewhere that explains this. Surely the majority of Masons back then weren't ignorant to the importance of preserving the ritual. there must have been some discussion/debate/argument about it before hand.
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There has to be a good reason because there was plenty of European Masons that had come to America and they didnt practice the P/W ritual there. P/W has been in use for many years and I have to wonder if those that came to America that were already masons prior to their arrival here wanted something different....
 
Winter

Winter

I've been here before
Brother LAX, you may want to edit your post. Posting any part of actual rituals is a violation of the rules.
 
Ashlar2006

Ashlar2006

Masonic Mafia
Sorry for my little rant Bro. Gary . I have been becoming depressed over what I see in many lodges and on the internet . Luckily I have some brothers who thrive on esoteric teachings in my area .

Now a question for Bro. Winter , you have my curiosity peaked and I want an Emulation ritual , do you have to prove your Masonic affiliation in any way to order one ?
 
Ashlar2006

Ashlar2006

Masonic Mafia
Gary said:
I guess the next logical question is what were Preston and Webb thinking when they decided to omit those tools and change the ritual so dramatically?

There has got to be some documentation somewhere that explains this. Surely the majority of Masons back then weren't ignorant to the importance of preserving the ritual. there must have been some discussion/debate/argument about it before hand.
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Now this is a guess . But I think it is because there are those Masons , Grand Masters , this big wig and that big wig who have to put their "stamp" on Freemasonry in their own way .

The OES is bad for this . You will learn the ritual and floor work and every year , EVERY Worthy Grand Matron will make changes to it to leave their mark . So every year , we have to change the way we say something or do something , tradition be damned .

Even in my Grand Lodge , there has been changes to the ritual . Grand Masters/Grand Lodge officers make changes , you can read my Monitor from the 90's , and read one from the 50's and 60's and see many differences . Some major , some minor but changes none the less .
 
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Gary

Guest
Ashlar2006 said:
Sorry for my little rant Bro. Gary . I have been becoming depressed over what I see in many lodges and on the internet . Luckily I have some brothers who thrive on esoteric teachings in my area .

Now a question for Bro. Winter , you have my curiosity peaked and I want an Emulation ritual , do you have to prove your Masonic affiliation in any way to order one ?
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No worries. I didn't perceive it as a rant. Personally, we are in accord with our thoughts on the matter. That is precisely why I take to the streets (or web forum) and talk about it! Doing a little research along the way has yielded quite an interesting discussion (at least it has been for me anyway). It may just turn into a paper after all. I just need some more resources. That Emulation ritual is one of them. You'd think Brother Winter would have several laying around... ;):D:p
 
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Gary

Guest
Ashlar2006 said:
You would think ..... :rolleyes: . I know I have several of my GL Monitors laying around , they date from the 50's up into the 90's .
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The price of those little books is $18.57 (U.S.) plus shipping. I'm surprised there isn't a vendor state side that has them.
 
Winter

Winter

I've been here before
There are only about 6 Lodges (don't quote me on that, it's a best guess) in the US that presently work in the Emulation Rite as maintained by the Emulation Lodge of instruction on Queen's Street in London. So there isn't such a huge demand. I believe sever Canadian jurisdictions work in it though, so you might be able to get it there. I just provided the link for the company that I and my Lodge do all of our business with.

And no, you do not have to show any Masonic affiliation to order from there. Our ritual is almost completely written out.

And sadly, I only have the one copy. Sorry guys!
 
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