That too...Having new brothers travel to see degrees gets them (and us/me) into the habit of traveling. It introduces us to our brotherhood, by showing that these men whom you have never met are your brothers.
That too...Having new brothers travel to see degrees gets them (and us/me) into the habit of traveling. It introduces us to our brotherhood, by showing that these men whom you have never met are your brothers.
LOL... You picked three of the more obscure topics to use as an example. Touche. The point I was making about the MC is not to discuss the ritual or the lecture itself. That would violate my OB as well. I see that you are not reading between the lines where I am going with this, so I will cease any further discussion with you on the matter. The rhetoric of failure is rampant here.I actually can't understand why anyone would be against candidates seeing the degrees from the sidelines except if there is some Grand Lodge regulation or edict against it. If that's the case, he's right and I will not bring anybody to another lodge until they are raised.
The point of not wanting to have deep discussions about the esoteric aspects of the Craft is somewhat unfair. I have no issue with discussing the Middle Chamber Lecture but only in person with a known brother and privately. I used Albert Pike as an example. but let's take a look at a small sample what's being discussed in this forum now:
None of these is a topic for a man who does not have an interest in some pretty obscure topics. The lessons of the Middle Chamber are far more accessible but openly discussing them here violates my Obligation.
That sounds like it was a splendid time. I agree that observing degrees in another jurisdiction may be confusing, but by allowing Brothers to observe degrees that they have already been through in their own jurisdiction it only serves to better impress those rituals upon them.Seeing a degree in another jurisdiction could be confusing to a newer Brother without a fellow Brother to 'translate' for him.
I was invited to a MM in Illinois, I was intrigued by the similarities and the differences. I was sitting to the right of the WM as an honored guest, he and I exchanged insights as to those nuances.
I agree totally! And the sooner the better after they themselves have gone through the degree so it is still fresh in their minds.That sounds like it was a splendid time. I agree that observing degrees in another jurisdiction may be confusing, but by allowing Brothers to observe degrees that they have already been through in their own jurisdiction it only serves to better impress those rituals upon them.
I get the feeling I've just been called stupid... The point I was making is that if you really want to have a free ranging conversation about the Middle Chamber or any of our Rituals, you can't do it here without "reading between the lines" which simply causes miscommunication. Yes, I picked the three least accessible topics but that wasn't too difficult. I'm a simple man and topics like those are simply not of interest to me. I think we agree that we are both good men and Masons. Last time I checked, I wasn't wearing a dunce cap and I don't think you are either. This topic started with a complaint that there is little interest in the esoteric topics in the forum. Seeing as we both know that's right, I was just trying to help you understand that although your zeal is laudable, these are not things that a lot of people who come here want to spend their time on.LOL... You picked three of the more obscure topics to use as an example. Touche. The point I was making about the MC is not to discuss the ritual or the lecture itself. That would violate my OB as well. I see that you are not reading between the lines where I am going with this, so I will cease any further discussion with you on the matter. The rhetoric of failure is rampant here.
That is wrong, just...wrong![snip]I was told just this evening that I could no longer bring candidates I sponsor to other lodges to see the degrees they have received from the sidelines.[snip]
No offence taken. I should have put a smiley next to that comment, my apologies. There is, or at least there is in my jurisdiction, plenty of opportunity to discuss the most obscure, esoteric subjects imaginable. There are lodges of research, to lodges, and for those just starting out, masonic book clubs. The difference between the forums here and those venues is that we can look around the room for cowans and evesdroppers and know we can be clear with our brothers.Brother, the last thing I would call you is stupid. You have done your fair share of contribution to discussions here and I do respect your opinions.
It just seemed to me that we were not communicating effectively and that frustrated me. The reason it did was because you seemed to understand what I was trying to say but appeared to skirt that fact. I apologize if my remarks offended you.
It just blow my mind that the majority of Masons seem uninterested in the symbolism in our fraternity. And if they are, they are reluctant to talk about t which doesnt do much for learning rhetoric and developing the skills of discourse.
Ill let the topic go. I guess I joined the fraternity for the wrong reasons. Never in my life have I ever felt like an outcast minority in a group that prides itself on history of social discourse for the benefit of education.
No hard feelings I hope. Like I said, i enjoy talking with you on the forum. I guess this just happens to be a subject that Ill not get to discuss.
I agree in principal, but part of my Obligation is to obey the rules of my Grand Lodge. If this guy is right and there is an edict prohibiting visitation by EAs and FCs, the only thing I can do is bring it up to the Grand Master for his judgement.That is wrong, just...wrong!
S&F
While I agree about the cowan's and eavesdroppers, the topics discussed here do not violate my jurisdictions laws or my OB. That's not to say that the subject matter isn't objectionable somewhere else. The principals of Freemasonry are not Masonic secrets (where I am), the ritual itself is. YMMV on that.No offence taken. I should have put a smiley next to that comment, my apologies. There is, or at least there is in my jurisdiction, plenty of opportunity to discuss the most obscure, esoteric subjects imaginable. There are lodges of research, to lodges, and for those just starting out, masonic book clubs. The difference between the forums here and those venues is that we can look around the room for cowans and evesdroppers and know we can be clear with our brothers.
I come here for some stimulating conversation about Freemasonry. I belong to the Masonic book club to discuss the deeper meanings of our more private topics. Of the 165 or so members of my lodge, there are less than 10 who belong to the book club. Of the 35,000 Masons in Massachusetts less than one hundred belong to the lodge of research. You are a rare and precious brother and I hope you can find what you're looking for. I just don't think this is the place to look.
This is true, but I've never heard of such a ruling before. It would seem absurd that a GM would issue an edict preventing a Brother from attending a degree that he has already received! To me that makes absolutely no sense. Of course, there are GM's out there who issue edicts just because they can, not because they are for the good of the Craft or make any sense for that matter.I agree in principal, but part of my Obligation is to obey the rules of my Grand Lodge. If this guy is right and there is an edict prohibiting visitation by EAs and FCs, the only thing I can do is bring it up to the Grand Master for his judgement.
To add to this to a constitution or become a permanent law .... There are two ways (in my jurisdiction) that this can be done . As I stated above , the Craft votes to adopt it , and add it to the constitution . OR each new Grand Master wishes to extend the edict during their term . An edict by a GM must be issued (and re-issued by each new GM) to each lodge in writing and read (sometime up to three times ) at stated meetings and again , this is in my jurisdiction .Something I may have missed , but the thing about an edict or resolution issued by a sitting Grand Master is this , they are only good for the year the GM is in office UNLESS the craft votes to adopt them to be added to the constitution at the GL session when he is going out of office .
A GM in 1953 may well have handed down such an edict , but when he went out of office , that edict went out with him and is no longer in effect . I honestly can not see the Grand Body (The Craft) adopting such an edict to be added to the constitution .
But then again , other jurisdictions may work differently than my own , so theres that too .
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