FreeMasonry Vs. Princehall Masonry

[Bob Franks]

pha lodge is what ive petioned

I'm a 'George Washington Mason,' but I have been attending the PHA local Monthly District Meeting to increase familiarity between the two bodies.
A few months ago a brother I hadn't seen much of asked about what advice to give a guy a work thinking about Petitioning: Should he tell him to join the 'white' lodge or the 'black' one?
The District Deputy Grand Master told him that the fellow should petition where he wanted.
The guy asked the same question.
The DDGM gave the same answer.
The guy asked the same question.
The DDGM gave the same answer.
The guy asked the same question, then said, "...But he's WHITE!"

At that point, my Brother Len (tall and blond) stood and said, "Well, I'm a Prince Hall Mason!"

S&F

 

[Gary]

I'm a 'George Washington Mason,' but I have been attending the PHA local Monthly District Meeting to increase familiarity between the two bodies.
A few months ago a brother I hadn't seen much of asked about what advice to give a guy a work thinking about Petitioning: Should he tell him to join the 'white' lodge or the 'black' one?
The District Deputy Grand Master told him that the fellow should petition where he wanted.
The guy asked the same question.
The DDGM gave the same answer.
The guy asked the same question.
The DDGM gave the same answer.
The guy asked the same question, then said, "...But he's WHITE!"

At that point, my Brother Len (tall and blond) stood and said, "Well, I'm a Prince Hall Mason!"

S&F

Racism knows no color. Some are even oblivious to their own racist bias because they think blacks can't be racist. Only "whitey" is. Unbelievable.

 

[Ashlar2006]

Racism knows no color. Some are even oblivious to their own racist bias because they think blacks can't be racist. Only "whitey" is. Unbelievable.

I have screaming this for years now , but many seem to ignore this fact !

Or , as I have been asking , is it just more PC to blame the white guy (or "MS" Grand Lodges and the Brethren in them) ?

 

[Gary]

I have screaming this for years now , but many seem to ignore this fact !

Or , as I have been asking , is it just more PC to blame the white guy (or "MS" Grand Lodges and the Brethren in them) ?

Convenient is more the word for it. If it's politically correct for them to do so, then who the heck is determining this correctness criteria?

 

[Ashlar2006]

Convenient is more the word for it. If it's politically correct for them to do so, then who the heck is determining this correctness criteria?

This is very true .

 

[Bob Franks]

Racism knows no color. Some are even oblivious to their own racist bias because they think blacks can't be racist. Only "whitey" is. Unbelievable.

I will be SOOO glad in a few years when European-Americans will drop below 50% of the American population.
This will end racism, because I have been told repeatedly that,
"MINORITIES CAN NOT BE RACISTS!"

...and then we'll all join hands and sing Kum-Ba-Yah, I'm sure.



S&F

 

[Duncan1574]

I will be SOOO glad in a few years when European-Americans will drop below 50% of the American population.
This will end racism, because I have been told repeatedly that,
"MINORITIES CAN NOT BE RACISTS!"

...and then we'll all join hands and sing Kum-Ba-Yah, I'm sure.



S&F

Ya beat me to it! Kum-Ba-Yah (slightly off key and so gravelly that Tom Waits is jealous).

 

[MILLZ27]

thank yall i appreciate ya open arms bros to be

 

[chodapp]

Here in Indiana we can do what the Lt has said BUT if you are PHA in any other state, you cannot visit our Lodges nor can we visit theirs...it is only fraternal relations within the state of Indiana......we had a guy while in the military was raised in a PHA lodge over seas....he came back and had to jump through hoops to be able to travel...he had to join a PHA Lodge then demit to a MS Lodge.....
The non recognition has been a two way street...lets not over look that too

Your two-way street statement is apt.

The GL of Indiana F&AM has only recognized the MWPHGL of Indiana, New Mexico and North Carolina. Why? Because no one else has asked. Masonic protocol and tradition has long held that a "younger" GL petitions an "older" one for recognition. If the 40+ Prince Hall jurisdictions across the US and Canada that have already been recognized by their mainstream counterparts sent letters to the GL of Indiana seeking recognition, it would almost surely and happily be granted. But without official Masonic communication and paper trails, nothing will happen.

I was told that a request for recognition in a southern state came to the Grand Lodge from the PHA GL via email. E-mail? It was ignored. Who really sent it? Was it real? What's next, a tweet?

If Prince Hall and mainstream GLs want across the board recognition, there is a proper way to achieve it, and sabre-rattling, emails, ego fights and hurt feelings won't get it accomplished. Grand Lodges in neighboring states are just like GLs in foreign countries, and should always be regarded as such.

It would be worthwhile if the mainstream and PHA conferences of grand masters would lay this out to every grand secretary, and maybe even come up with a uniform recognition request format that everyone could copy from. Now that 51 North American jurisdictions share territory between their respective GLs, it would be beneficial for all of our members if our GLs got on the same page with each other.

 

[PatrickWilliams]

Your two-way street statement is apt.

The GL of Indiana F&AM has only recognized the MWPHGL of Indiana, New Mexico and North Carolina. Why? Because no one else has asked. Masonic protocol and tradition has long held that a "younger" GL petitions an "older" one for recognition. If the 40+ Prince Hall jurisdictions across the US and Canada that have already been recognized by their mainstream counterparts sent letters to the GL of Indiana seeking recognition, it would almost surely and happily be granted. But without official Masonic communication and paper trails, nothing will happen.

Now, I could be wrong about this (and if I am, more's the pity) but I believe that MS Wisconsin passed a resolution that says, in effect, that we recognize any PHA jurisdiction that PHA Wisconsin recognizes. This snuffs multiple avians with a single rock: PHA jurisdictions don't have to ask to be recognized by MS GL WI, they just have to be recognized by PHA WI. This keeps the control of the PHA jurisdiction firmly in the hands of PHA (where it belongs) and it means that MS GL WI only has to act if a) there is an issue with any particular GL recognized by PHA, or b) some other particularly bizarre circumstance rears its ugly head.

Now that 51 North American jurisdictions share territory between their respective GLs, it would be beneficial for all of our members if our GLs got on the same page with each other.

A nice dream, Brother Hodapp, a nice dream indeed. But I think that a move towards getting on the same page about just about ANY issue would be seen would be seen as a violation of individual Masonic authority, and/or a step towards making a United GL of the USA.

 

[Windrider]

I was under the impression that the Lodge's Charter is to be displayed in the Lodge for it to actually hold meetings.

Our Charter is kept securely under lock and key in a specially made cylinder in a fireproof safe in the Masonic Building where we and several other Lodges meet. It is taken out only when required.

I was once told that it is within the rights of a visiting MM to demand to see the Lodge's Charter. The conversation between myself and a Ritualist went like this:

Me: What can I expect when visiting other Lodges where I don't know anyone?
Ritualist: They will ask you (secret stuff) but if they get too out of hand, you can always demand to see their Charter.

 

[PatrickWilliams]

I was under the impression that the Lodge's Charter is to be displayed in the Lodge for it to actually hold meetings.

As always, it depends on the jurisdiction. This, from the Wisconsin Masonic Code: Annotations 73.07 : While the proper place for the charter of a lodge is in the lodge room, its literal presence is not indispensable to a valid communication ....

I'm sure every jurisdiction has something in their Code or Constitutions regarding this. In essence, a Lodge, to be valid must have a Charter, but, in Wisconsin at least, it is not necessary that the Charter be displayed.

 

[PatrickWilliams]

Oh ... and before anyone asks: The Wisconsin Masonic Code is online and is not esoteric.

 

[Ashlar2006]

Our constitution is also on-line .

 

[kyoung68]

There is no difference between the two. There may be some subtle differences in the performance of rituals, but that's about it. Also to respond to Bro. Gemeny statement. Prince Hall Freemasonry is recognized by the Grand Lodge of England!! We obtained our charter in 1784! That original document is properly sealed and protected in a bank vault in Boston, MA! Check it out the next time you visit!!!!!


Karl A. Young
PM, Best Grove #392 PHA

 

[Bob Franks]

visiting in another jurisdiction

I was fortunate last night to visit a Lodge in another state, the Lodge and state I will for the present leave unnamed, though the Lodge is recognized by my (NC) Grand Lodge.
It was the first meeting opened and closed by the new slate of officers for 2011.
There was discussion about the Lodge buying a computer, and after short discussion in Lodge, the Master appointed two of the junior officers and a principle officer to a committee to report back to the next meeting with their recommendation. I lingered nearby as the 3 brothers arranged a formal committee meeting, to suggest a computer program our Lodge has found useful.

It was gratifying to find the two younger members of the committee, who were just Raised late last year, after talking about visiting, asked about what was the situation about Prince Hall Lodges, which their jurisdiction does NOT recognize. They were curious about the ritual in those Lodges, when I said I'd visited PHA Lodges in 3 jurisdictions. We talked a little about the "freeborn" argument that some brothers use against recognition.

What was gratifying was that these young Masons obviously took seriously their Obligations and Lectures and felt it would be proper to recognize the PHA Grand Lodge in their state.

S&F

 

[Bob Franks]

Arguments against recognition

Since going to Lodge in this jurisdiction I am visiting last week and talking to the junior Brothers, I have lingered in my thoughts about something one of them said. He mentioned that his jurisdiction does not recognize PHA Masonry and I asked why not. He replied that he'd been told it was because they were not 'freeborn.'

My eyes widened and I told him we'd not had slavery in the USA for 145 years. No one alive today was born into slavery in the USA. I went on to expound that nearly everyone can find a slave in their ancestory, giving a few examples.
I am heartened that he, and the other junior Brother, are fans of recognition, but disheartened that these lame old arguments are still trotted out by the 'anti-s,' to newly made Masons, who don't know how to respond.


Can we start a discussion listing all the arguments we've heard AGAINST recognition, so that we can expose them to the light, and give ourselves, and our less informed Junior Masons the answers they need if asked how we can recognize Prince Hall Affiliate Masons if they _________ (fill in the blank)?

In an hour or so I will post the first under General masonic Discussion.


S&F

 

[Duncan1574]

Since going to Lodge in this jurisdiction I am visiting last week and talking to the junior Brothers, I have lingered in my thoughts about something one of them said. He mentioned that his jurisdiction does not recognize PHA Masonry and I asked why not. He replied that he'd been told it was because they were not 'freeborn.'

My eyes widened and I told him we'd not had slavery in the USA for 145 years. No one alive today was born into slavery in the USA. I went on to expound that nearly everyone can find a slave in their ancestory, giving a few examples.
I am heartened that he, and the other junior Brother, are fans of recognition, but disheartened that these lame old arguments are still trotted out by the 'anti-s,' to newly made Masons, who don't know how to respond.


Can we start a discussion listing all the arguments we've heard AGAINST recognition, so that we can expose them to the light, and give ourselves, and our less informed Junior Masons the answers they need if asked how we can recognize Prince Hall Affiliate Masons if they _________ (fill in the blank)?

In an hour or so I will post the first under General masonic Discussion.


S&F

wanted to be recognized.

In my conversations with GL officers, many PHAs do not want to be part of mainstream Masonry, they have created their own flavor of Freemasonry and like it that way.

 

[Winter]

Duncan,

There are some PHA jurisdictions that are happy doing their own thing and other PHA areas that are willing to work with thier MS counterparts to bridge the divide.

To clarify, nobody is trying to make PHA part of mainstream Masonry or exert jurisdictional control. (I hope) If a PHA juridiction is Recognized by the MS jurisdiction in the same area, all it means is, "We see you, and the Masonry you work is Regular. Stop by for coffee some time."

PHA has a long and beautiful tradition here and I hope you all get to experience it someday!

 

[Bob Franks]

wanted to be recognized.

In my conversations with GL officers, many PHAs do not want to be part of mainstream Masonry, they have created their own flavor of Freemasonry and like it that way.

Recognitions does not equate to merging. Prince Hall Masonry has a long, dignified, and distinguished tradition. No PHA Mason I've talked to, not even MWGM Milton "Toby" Fitch of NC is interested in merger.

If merger were to occur in NC, it would be a GL of 55k absorbing a GL of 14.7k, and much tradition would be lost.

S&F