Can a person be Homosexual and be a Mason or Eastern star?

[Gary]

I'm for don't ask don't tell on this one. I think that a man can be a mason, but his sexual preference has no bearing whatsoever.

Fireman's question about the obligation: Well, we could always do what they did to the SR rituals...Modify them to fit the times... You can't tell me it's not being done in every Jurisdiction. Otherwise, why are there so many huge variances in ritual?

When we talk about religion deeming something like this as immoral, aren't we told not to discuss religion or politics in the Lodge? To me, this issue is directly related to both.

I say judge a man by his heart and mind. Not the gender he chooses to have "relations" with. I'm still not too sure about the trans-gender issue though.

 

[removed12612]

Windrider.... neither would I.....

Trans-gender....I am takinga hard line on this one and saying absolutely NO....no discussion room on this one for me. It may be harsh or whatever...but that is my feelings. The verdict is not in regarding a gay man..... I still am doing some serious thinking on it....

 

[Duncan1574]

Windrider.... neither would I.....

Trans-gender....I am takinga hard line on this one and saying absolutely NO....no discussion room on this one for me. It may be harsh or whatever...but that is my feelings. The verdict is not in regarding a gay man..... I still am doing some serious thinking on it....

TGs, once the surgery is completed, are outwardly and inwardly the gender they have chosen. I have several friends who are TGs, going both directions.

As for membership, the US Masonic edict is: A man, of age, without a felony conviction, of good character, and passes the Lodge vote, is allowed entrance to a Lodge. (correct me if I am wrong, I R new).

IF a completed male TG moved into an area where they are not know (not an uncommon occurance) and petitioned a Lodge there would be no way for the Lodge to know their birth gender.

(the above is to spur conversation, debate, discussion, and understanding).

 

[removed12612]

If the TG isnt known to be one in that community...well...that person would be coming in under FALSE pretenses to me (IMHO)...just like if a person was to lie about a felony or anything else... if no one knew they were Tg and joined, well probably not much would be done....but would you be able to put 100% trust into that person.....

TG.... NOPE.....sorry...if you dont come equipted with the plumbing of a male....you arent a man...if I get surgery and have horns put on my head, any I now a bull??? If I own a Dodge truck but buy some parts that say Ford on it and put it on my Dodge, is that truck now a Ford..... just because they change the shape of their outward appearance, that doesnt make them whatever they change into.... besides, on their birth cert, I do believe it will still say female....if they were born a female. IF they are born male and want to be a woman...then they no longer should be a Mason either....(IMHO), I feel that they would cast a negative light on the fraternity.....can you imagine Brother John Doe...now going by Jane Doe with a dress on and apron ...NOPE.....if they want to live their life differently than what they were born....good for them, I wish them no ill will....but they just cant be a member in my eyes....

 

[Windrider]

If the TG isnt known to be one in that community...well...that person would be coming in under FALSE pretenses to me (IMHO)...just like if a person was to lie about a felony or anything else... if no one knew they were Tg and joined, well probably not much would be done....but would you be able to put 100% trust into that person.....

TG.... NOPE.....sorry...if you dont come equipted with the plumbing of a male....you arent a man...if I get surgery and have horns put on my head, any I now a bull??? If I own a Dodge truck but buy some parts that say Ford on it and put it on my Dodge, is that truck now a Ford..... just because they change the shape of their outward appearance, that doesnt make them whatever they change into.... besides, on their birth cert, I do believe it will still say female....if they were born a female. IF they are born male and want to be a woman...then they no longer should be a Mason either....(IMHO), I feel that they would cast a negative light on the fraternity.....can you imagine Brother John Doe...now going by Jane Doe with a dress on and apron ...NOPE.....if they want to live their life differently than what they were born....good for them, I wish them no ill will....but they just cant be a member in my eyes....

Interesting perspective.

A friend of my daughter was a female who wanted but could not afford the surgery to become male. For a number of reasons, this person had lost my respect long before I discovered her desire to be male. My daughter, with much frustration, asked me when I would call her friend a man. I answered, "When she grows a Y chromosome."

Let's say this was adopted by the fictional Grand Lodge of the Earth and all our Lodges were instructed to examine each Petitioner's genetic material to determine gender. That would allow our formally male Brother to stay in Lodge with his dress and apron and exclude the formally female petitioner from consideration. Thinking this through, I would have to be far more enlightened than I am now to disagree with fireman99.

 

[Gary]

He hit the nail on the head for sure. No issues on their personal life choices on my end. But, I do agree with Fireman on this one. No Y chromosome...not a man no matter what after market parts you have bolted on.

 

[removed12612]

Thanks for the moral support... what about if he removes the parts after becoming a Brother???.... I say no.... he would cast a bad light on the fraternity...IMHO

 

[Duncan1574]

Let's say this was adopted by the fictional Grand Lodge of the Earth and all our Lodges were instructed to examine each Petitioner's genetic material to determine gender. That would allow our formally male Brother to stay in Lodge with his dress and apron and exclude the formally female petitioner from consideration. Thinking this through, I would have to be far more enlightened than I am now to disagree with fireman99.

Interesting thoughts:
1. the Grand Lodge of Earth, all the Masons in the world under one authority..
2. Checking Y-chrom, cheek swab before initiation
3. his dress, Which brings up cross-dressing Masons

 

[Duncan1574]

Thanks for the moral support... what about if he removes the parts after becoming a Brother???.... I say no.... he would cast a bad light on the fraternity...IMHO

Then as part of her conversion to female would be divorcing themselves from their old life, that would include demitting IMHO.

 

[removed12612]

That would be the honorable thing to do....

 

[Galen_Dean_PM]

Bro. Ashlar, I saw the KY vote via a link in FB. Although this issue has not come before our G.L. here in California, our Masonic Code does not prohibit homosexuality. In fact, we have a lodge in California with a large percentage of members that are gay.

I was at a symposium last year in which a member of the audience spoke up and said we need to hunt down gays in the fraternity and expell them. The moderator gently reminded him that we do not pass such judgment on our members and that there is nothing in our code that addresses a persons' sexuality.

 

[removed12612]

Sexuality is such a difficult topic...I dont think you can put a definite yes or no as the majority rule on it. What would be comsidered acceptable in a metropolitian area could be very taboo in a smalltown. The issue would be would that person cause disharmony in the Lodge??? Would that person come well recommended???.... It is a dificult topic to put an answer too.

 

[Brother Liberty]

I don't know that is should be that difficult of a topic Fireman. Especially in Masonry. Masons are supposed to be able to look beyond their personal beliefs to see the good in a man. That basic tenant should be the same in a lodge in NYC or a small town.

On an interesting note, this thread has become a hot topic in my lodge. I have emailed both the grand master and grand secretary of MS in an attempt to get some insight into how they came to their decision to not allow homosexuals to made masons. I find it very interesting the neither has found the time in a week to respond to me.

 

[Ashlar2006]

Tell your Grand Lodge you owe them money , they will get to you in a mattrer of minutes . JK.

This is pretty much a non -issue in every lodge in my district that I have been in . I did worry about some of the members in my lodge when I gave my report , but very few cares one way or the other , and we are not city lodges but country lodges full of supposed "rednecks" , according to some from other jurisdictions . It is not heated , most just shrug their shoulders and go on . I have heard a comment or two , but they do not matter in the big scheme of things .

 

[removed12612]

The problem is in a rural area, an openly gay man just might not come well recommended...so is that person to be excluded...just like anyother man that doesnt come well recommended. In a perfect world, it wouldnt be a difficult topic BUT we are not PERFECT..... working on being Perfect....

 

[Ashlar2006]

My lodge is a rural lodge . We are all country boys and farmers , you can not get much more rural than my lodge and no one seems to care one way or another .

 

[Ashlar2006]

To be honest ,I was really surprised at how little everyone cares . I worried over this for nothing .

 

[removed12612]

That is very true...I know "city" dwellers and they are not very accepting of homosexuality....I am a suburban living person...the location doesnt make people more or less tollerant.

BUT what do you do if the guy has a bad rep in the community...just because he is gay....he is not coming well recommended....would he cause disharmony in the Lodge???

 

[Ashlar2006]

No matter where we are at or what group we are members of there will always be a few who oppose someone who is different . Even those who are supposedly "enlightened" can not help themselves but judge others because we do or do not do something they like/dislike or simply for where we live .

 

[removed12612]

That is why discussions like this take up 8,9,10 pages on forums...and NONE of them ever come to a answer that makes all parties involved happy....

Regardless of who the guy is or what they have done, when you vote on him, vote what you feel is right ...if you can look yourself in the face and you are comfortable with who you see....well...then you probably didnt do anything wrong...it might not make all happy but you will never be able to do that